Ep. 4 | An author’s script on entrepreneurship - Cillian Dunne

Cillian Dunne is a Dublin-born author and screenwriter who is now making waves in Manhattan Beach, California. From his debut novel at 22 to his latest work, "Dreams in Incarceration," Cillian's storytelling journey has been resilient and determined. With titles like "Death by a Million Papercuts" and "True West" under his belt, Cillian's passion for writing led him to leave behind the 9-to-5 for a full-time pursuit of storytelling. He's faced challenges along the way, but his unwavering positivity and "I am going to do it" mentality have kept him going. We explore themes of second chances, manifesting positivity, and the realities of burnout in modern work life. You can find Cillian's work on Amazon in the link below.


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Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode four of Shaking Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. You can find me on Instagram at Blue Collar Kid that is blue collar K-E-H-D. We have an awesome guest today, a long time friend of mine. Cillian Dunne. He's an investigative author who's written four books thus far and also a screenwriter. And that's living out here in L.A. and doing some really cool things. How we doing, Cillian? Good mate Yeah. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So I kind of give you a little background on what we do with the podcast. You know, it's a platform to get people who are chasing their dreams, to share their stories in hopes to kind of catalyze the decision for someone else who may be in the rat race to, you know, make the leap to chasing their own passions. Because, you know, I firmly believe that when you chase your passion, that's the best contribution that you can make to the world. But we kind of always start off by talking about your story. How did you get into entrepreneurship? How do you, you know, start off writing? What were kind of the stages that got you like where you are today? Yeah, like I said, I've written four books. I wrote my first book when I was 22, was still in college and I before that I had just kind of like dicked around writing screenplays and like little short stories and all that kind of storytelling boss. I started writing books, actually, because I went through like a breakup. My ex-girlfriend at the time, like, broke up for me. I was in Dublin, like, what? Not nice to do. And I was like, Fucking, I'll just write a book. So I did a startup and did it, and it was like it was an awesome feeling, but it wasn't very good at all. But I just kind of like, loved the feeling of doing something for myself and finishing. So I kept doing this and then that eventually led into the investigative stuff and what sort of really tipped me over the edge in terms of like going out on my own to do this and not sort of just like dicking around doing this was at the very end of college. I didn't really know what I wanted to do whatsoever, but I was just writing a lot and I had one piece of it was my first piece of writing. Thus was sort of like you could say it was like critically acclaimed or whatever you would call it. Like anybody who writes, like, really like this. And they were it wasn't like a few competitions and it was like recognized in this like industry platform thing. So yeah, So I just decided to move out to L.A. But when I moved out to L.A., I was still sort of like living with that fear, Like I was working like a 9 to 5 job and I was doing this, so I was working like crazy days. I was like, but whatever. I was about seven, eight, and I was I was about 532 work East Coast. I was four for my job, finished like 230 and then a rice from like three to like nine or ten or something like that. So I was doing two full time jobs essentially. And then last May, but a year ago I just said, you know, fuck the, the 9 to 5. And I started writing full time and I was like, I just, you know, just find a way to make money doing this, right? So what's that leap kind of been like jumping in headfirst into entrepreneurship and into your passion and like, not having the comfort of the job anymore? It was it was awesome at first. And then I went through a real dark patch where I was like, Fuck, I have no money. And then I just sort of like I had no money and shit and, and I just sort of like kind of pushed through it. I was like, okay, like, you know, the point of no return. Like, what do they say? Like, burn the ships? That's like, Yeah, burn the ships. It's like a friend's like, Yeah, you can't return, right? So I like had that burn the ships months back and I was like, okay, I got to just like, keep writing. And I wrote this book that's here to table. I just like, like I do investigative stuff, but I just went out independently and interviewed like a former Crip in South Central L.A. and wrote like a prison book about his experiences and and involved like what? Like prison wardens and just literally, just like, cold called prisons. It's like, built a story on and and that was sort of like a Kickstarter, like I did this and then good things that are coming my way because I went like all in on this and essentially did nothing else for like three or four months with like zero income. So. So how long is that book? It's it's 208 pages. Like 60. It's like 62,000 words, which to like, compare it to something like The Great Gatsby is only like 50,000 words or something, so you can read it in one sitting if you're like a really fast reader. But to write it was like two or three months. And how much time is that per day you're putting into? I was putting in like seven or 8 hours a day, like just on this, like, like strictly on this book, it's like 1200 words per day at least. And that's just like Stephen King's model. And Stephen King is super prolific. So I was like, if I just follow what he does work ethic wise, like I'll get books done and it works. It's like you just have like a word limit and use it can take you 8 hours, it could take you to, but usually it takes like longer than, than a couple hours because you just want to make sure everything like is good. And grammatically it's correct and stuff like that. So are you working on any projects right now, like actively? Yeah, I'd say realistically I'm coming to like, the tail end of one project down in Panama. Yeah, Panamanian story. It's really cool. We'll be able to talk about it too much. But I, I'd say like the Cliff Notes version, that's sort of like, like a cold, Cold War political espionage kind of thing. And it's super cool. It's it's investigative as well. It definitely is a step up from this. But that's good. That's like honestly what I was looking for because every book I'd like to make it like way more challenging and it's super challenging, but it's also like that's where it actually is fun. Like, I was just writing like the same shit over and over again. I get really bored. Like that was part of the reason for just like, absolutely hating my 9 to 5 just so monogamist. Like it's like every day is the exact same. It's like a carbon copy of the last day and people seem to just be like delusional with themselves. Like you just kind of like fucking like monkeys in a factory. So, so what's kind of like the process when you're doing like these investigative books? Is it a it's kind of like an interrogation, right? You have to, like, extract the information from the people. Like, you know, how do you kind of go about that? Yeah, I sort of it might not be the best analogy, but I describe it as wading through water. So like you're trying to get to the deep end where like all the really cool information is, but like if you dive right into the deep end, like you might, you might drown. You know what I mean? Like, if you dive right in, you might drown. So you got to wade your way out there. So you get to wade through all of the bullshit that, like, you really don't care about. Like, you know, you talk about more personal stuff with the person that you're the subject that you're speaking with. You talk about surface level stuff with this guy. Dave for this book, you know, we started that we didn't like. He murdered he murdered people when he was a teenager. That's why he went to prison. But we started out talking about, you know, his favorite, like restaurants or like talking about like, chicks. Like, you see many girls right now, Like, how's that going? And you just kind of build and establish. Yeah, you got to build some rapport. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, once you get to because the subject isn't stupid like they know why they're being interviewed and they know what you want, but you just have to like sort of, like, build the, you just have to like the nucleus is like the really interesting stuff. Needed stuff to build the story from the outside in. Has everyone been like super cooperative or have you had to deal with that sort of thing? It's like it's pretty 5050. Some people are super cooperative, but everybody everybody wants to be well represented when in fact like not everybody can be like 100% well represented. So they're going to tell you what you want to hear. You just have to decipher what's bullshit and what isn't. And then, you know, use your best judgment. And also, like research outside of the interviews is huge as well. So this book Dreams of incarceration. Are you ever, like, nervous with the, you know, doing this with Dave? Honestly, he's rehabilitated. He's totally rehabilitated. Yeah. He's the man. I'm like, I'm like, actually friends them. Like, my mom was here in L.A., like, three weeks ago, and I introduced her to like, we went to got coffee, you know? Yeah, yeah. He's man, I absolutely love him. He's got, like, a wicked, dark past boss. He like, he he did his time, like he's super rehabilitated. He's kind of like a motivational speaker now. That's like his ultimate goal. So he's he's going all in trying to, like, make that happen. And, and yeah, is that he's doing good work. How is man how old was he when he got like released from He was he was like 32, maybe 33 when he got released. He was 17 when he when he was like tribe. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I mean I think it's a testament that you can, you know, so many people are worried when they leave college about what they're going to do. And it's like you can really fuck up the next ten years of your life and like second chances do exist. Dude, 100%. I was while I was interviewing him, I was like, well, I was writing the book rather I, you know, because I write my, my books in first person. So like, I get inside the mind of the person that I'm interviewing, and then I write us how I feel like they would progress through their own story with almost like internal commentary. Like along the way, I just find that really interesting. That's why I just, I kind of just like picked a narrative and just like, stuck with it to become like an expert on it. He did his time, dude. Like that. He had to go through some like, dog shit. And I fully believe that he's earned like a second chance, but like, he really had to work for it and he knew that he had to work for it. So you were saying before, like how you kind of taken the full dive now you don't have that comfortable backing of a of a job. What was it kind of like with your peers and your surroundings in your family? Was it full support or you have some haters? Because I've always found like this journey of entrepreneurship and doing what? Doing your own thing and like not following the the traditional path is an anomaly. There's not many people that are doing it, unfortunately. So when you go out for that external feedback, it's not I mean, at least in my own experience, it's typically not positive because people don't relate to it very well. So they're, you know, they'd rather steer you back to the traditional and the conventional, which unless you have the confidence, can be daunting, like you may want to go back to that convert. Yeah, I did for sure. There were a couple times it's funny, there's there was like an exact moment. I was like after I finish this book, I kind of like, didn't really know what I was doing. Like, it was great doing this and it was totally worth it. But there was like a week where like, I was really freaking out. I didn't have much money at all, didn't know what I was doing, and I was interviewing for full time jobs again. I was literally like, I was interviewing for full time jobs. And then I got that call about the Panama to Panama book. Yeah, I swear to God. Like, I got to call it Funny how that works out like that, you know? Yeah, like, and I called the guy that I was about to do a final interview. The guy, like, really wants me to work for his company. And I got I was like, Hey, I'm going to Panama. Like, I'm not going to do this and, like, find his way, like, steering you in the right direction, for sure. Yeah. And I'm also like, I, I'm big on, like, manifesting of sound, like an eloquence or anything. Like I have a manifest know, I think, like if you constantly are thinking about something like it's in some way, shape or form, it's going to happen. But I yeah, I don't know. I think for me in terms of like supports or whatever, I'd say like my core friend group really supportive, like very insanely supportive, like they always sort of have been family was like my mom extremely supportive. My dad took a little bit of time to come around, brother, very supportive, but like outside a lot, you know people, I'm sure you get this like you've gotten this as well, but like people will when they're like when they're talking to you, like in person, they'll pretend sometimes that they're like, really supportive and they're like, you know, you're writing books like, Good for You. And then behind your back, they're like, That guy's a fucking bomb. This fucking guy doesn't do shit. I just smoked weed all day and writes like, No, fuck you like way more time than you. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like at the end of the day, like it it bothered me at first. Like I really have been like a people pleaser my whole life. But I just got to a certain point where I was like, like I just don't give a fuck. Like, yeah, that's the way to be. Yeah, Yeah. At the end of the day, like, those people will come back around and it's like if you're judging someone else for, like chasing their dreams, it's because you're, you're usually projecting what you're not doing. Yeah, you were talking about manifesting. Do you have like a process that you go through? You know, I talk about it. You're controlling your reality by being congruent, like your what your goals are are congruent with what you're doing every single day. Do you have a process that you go through to like, is it like affirmations? Like how do you manifest and keep yourself aligned with your path? I would say, yeah, affirmations is probably the right word to use. Like I, I really, I really just make sure that I'm thinking about what I want all the time. You know what I mean? Like it. And I guess like to like a lot of people that sounds exhausting because people love to turn off their brains. And like one thing, this is kind of a tangent I'll come back to, but like, one thing that I fucking hate about working in an office are like 9 to 5 and it's just I feel like it's such a relevant example. I'd coworkers that would get to work at like seven or 730. They would work and they would put in hard work like they would work to like 7:00 at night or whatever to wind down. They would come home, sit on their couch and watch the office, the TV show. And I'm like, What the fuck are you doing That is just so miserable? It made me so depressed that, like, people did that. You know what I mean? Yeah. You just can't escape it. Yeah. It's like, What are you doing to your mind? Like, you're fucking rotting your brain by doing shit like that. So. Awesome. Am I allowed to swear? Yeah. Okay. I've tried like, 30 times. We're at the point of no return from the ships from the fucking ships, right? I Yeah, in terms of. I just think about it all the time. It's a total obsession. Like, I've got a very obsessive brain, but it benefits me because you have to be like, Well, no, like, like exactly like you. Like you wouldn't be able to build if you weren't obsessed. Know, like, I'm obsessed with this stuff, and I just. All I want to do is just like, right. And I just want to like, like, write good stories, like whether they're books or screenplays or whatever. Like, that's all. That's all I care about. And I'll do whatever it takes to, like, get exactly where I want to be. And I talked about like congruence and incongruence before to be successful, like really successful, it doesn't take 40 hours a week, you know, it takes a lot of time. And I find that if you're not doing what you're passionate about and what you like and you don't have that obsession, it's impossible to put in the amount of time that it requires to be successful. It's not sustainable. You will burn out if you're, you know, hating your life. If you're looking forward to the weekend, like if you're passionate and you're chasing what you want, what you're obsessed with, it's it's nothing to put in 70 hours a week. It's nothing to think about it constantly because it's what you're already thinking about. And when you do that, it truly does manifest into reality. And like those outcomes start, start coming into your control. You agree? Yeah, I do. Big time. Yeah. I just like, I feel like there's so much time. There's so much time in the week, but at the same time, like there's not enough, you know what I mean? It's like people, like even people that do work, like full time jobs, like 40 hours is not that much you like. If you really want to like, you could have a side hustle and like, you can make it work and you can build to the point where like you're making a more comfortable leap. You know, it's like I just I'll put I'll always put in like the exact amount of time necessary sometimes, like actually it never falls below. It would never fall below 40, but it would like fluctuate between like 80 and 60, right? I mean, it's like because I work on the weekends too, obviously, and it fluctuate between like 80 and 60 and that it still does it it still feels like I could be doing more. Like there's definitely some rider out there that's working like 90 or 100, you know what I mean? I mean, you don't necessarily have to be writing 80 hours or doing your job 90 hours a week, but it's like being congruent that what you are doing is aligned with that path. So I you know, I'm a firm believer that you have to take care of your body and you have to be healthy and like putting in those hours to go to the gym are going to, you know, get a massage or go to the spa and to meditate. Those things are all congruent with your path. They support the foundation that allows you to be successful. So it's not, you know, necessarily putting in 80 hours a week working and writing or, you know, me building II, but it's like putting in that time. Everything that I'm doing somehow is correlated to that path. Yeah. Have you dealt with any adversity along this path? I mean, obviously I think that's a big thing we talk about on this. This podcast is like the biggest reason why people get steered away from entrepreneurship is because they have a negative connotation with adversity. But it when you're plummeting down a path that's unknown, it's kind of expected. And if you can expect that adversity it's easier to deal with, then, you know, a lot of people, they come to this adversity and it's scary because there's a fear of the unknown and they go back to the comfort which you never achieve your goals that way. So have you dealt with like any adversity or. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think I mean anything to do with like writing or literature, like art is just, it's always like it's, it's really subjective, so it's hypercritical just in terms of like any adversity or challenges, like I'd say getting over like criticisms was really helpful, but like, not necessarily like getting over. I think it's, it's, it's one thing to sort of just like ignore the hate, but it's another thing to like understand where it's coming from, internalize it and like, I'm like adopting. So when it comes to writing, you know, received a shitload of criticism. I first like my books. My first book, like, was not very good at all. My second one was all right, so like one eventually got published, which is great, and it just added like a little bit of credibility, but like, my God, my editor, like, shredded me, my publisher, like, shredded me, like it's like every book is like an extension of you to some degree. So like, you really feel you fearless, you know, and then it's sort of that that sort of the arts marketing has been insanely difficult or like standing out from the crowd. But I've sort of just learned and I'm still learning like, like a loss, but I've sort of just learned that like the way that I pushed through it. And I'm sure it's like a very, like common experience, but like literally just I just put my head down and just like, fucking charge right through the challenge and, you know, pick up like little pieces of information, like learn along the way. But yeah, I just, I honestly, I feel like I just sort of like, I don't really, like, think as much as I do now. I hopefully I will think about things like that are very important. And if there needs to be a strategy like of course I'll sit down and plan. But in terms of like action, I just, you know, adversity itself has such a negative connotation, but I don't think that it has to be like failure and and adversity. It's really just like the stress and the pain is the cost of learning. And that knowledge is what allows you to really channel your path to get you online with whatever your goal is. And eventually, if you keep repeating that path and process and keep getting through that adversity, eventually it's going to transact and intersect with your goal. Yeah. What is your definition of success like? You're at this place, you look around and you're like, Okay, Cillian made it, That's sort of like because I think about this quite a bit. When will I be happy doing what I'm doing? Like, I'm already happy, but like, when will I feel like I've like sort of, like, earned where I'm us? And I think that's like, I think that like I'm big on sort of like freedom of working is grace and I've, I get a lot of pleasure out of like just the act of working. But I also think that all of the beauties of life come from like when you are when you're sort of like personally satisfied, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I do like to have a drink and like, have a good time and all that, but like, I don't like to do that when I don't feel like I've earned this. And the older I'm getting and the deeper I'm going into this, the less I feel like I've earned that because I have like bigger goals. I take longer to reach. So I think when I think of success, I think of literally just like reaching like goals, like bigger and bigger goals. And I think I have a problem with like not stopping every once in a while and like looking around and say, shit, like I've reached like all these goals and like, in terms of success, I want to have like I'm on my path, but yeah, I don't know, like I don't really have like an overall goal, like a number one goal other than like, I would like to be when I die, I would like for my work to like, live on an eternity. That's like a fucking bullshit. Lay off. That's pretty sad. Yeah. Like, I want my I want my writing to, like, live on maternity. Like I would love for my name to be up there with, like, Stephen King or like Hemingway or whatever. Like Kerouac, like people who are like, recognizable names for their writing, you know what I mean? And that's, that is the ultimate goal. And but I don't think that is like also what success will be. Because like, I do believe in personal happiness, Like, I think I would like, I would love to have like a wife and kids, like one day. I think that's like another. I think that's for a lot of people. Like having like a good family is a, you know, an idea of success or yeah, little, little things like that. I just want to be happy, you know? Sometimes I feel like the universe talks to me a little bit and is like, okay, like if you want this goal, like, and you want to, you know, achieve this success that I've defined, you have to do this. And it like burns within me. I'm like, and I know whether or not I'm actually executing what I need to do. Like, do you know what path you have to take to get yourself to being on that Stephen King level or the Kerouac level? Yeah, Yeah, I do. I have the same feeling, I think with me it's literally just first of all, it's writing like every day, no matter what, like writing every day, you you could be having the worst day of your life, But on the worst days of your life, that's when you get like the best writing, which is ironic. A lot of emotion is coming through. Exactly. Yeah. Like nobody likes a copywriter. You know, we like our writer's Depressed is fucking, like, on the verge of suicide. That's. Those are the best. Those are the best writers. But yeah, no, totally. I think like writing every day. And then also in terms of like the content that I'm writing or in terms of the stories that I'm exploring, I think like actually resonance with the reader or like if it's like for movies, resonance with the viewer is really important. Like, I love, I would love for my stories to I'd say, it's so hard to explain because I write like really dark stuff, but I love, like, placing pockets of light in like, really dark places because I think that's how the world actually is for a lot of people. It's like the world is really dark for a lot of people, but if you can find the light, then you can like continue going on. So that's what I do with the books. Like I place Pockets of Light, interesting stories that are otherwise like Rut, like, you know, relatively dark. You know, they're not like horror books or anything like that. But that's really interesting. Yeah. So that's yeah, sort of like my mission is to like, I don't want to say like, inspire people because not really like inspiring stories, but just like Captivate Ocean and Resonance. I want my writing to, like, resonate with people however they see fit. Yeah, and I've gotten a chance to, like, read some of your stuff recently and I think it definitely does. Or yeah, you're just you're on the path. This is an interesting question I like to ask, like, what is one thing killing in today would tell Cillian who just started out like, what kind of advice would would you give yourself? There's one piece of advice. man, be open to change. Be able to change. When I first started out, I was really stubborn about like the way I did things. And then I was forced into, like, understanding different perspectives. Like it was like it was it was sort of like a gentle force for people like that where my I guess like they were my peers, but they just like, were very familiar with like who I was and how I wrote and what I was trying to write. They're like, okay, maybe you should like, think about things differently or like, you should read this book or whatever. So I was wicked stubborn when I first started out. If I wasn't so sober when I first started out, maybe I'd be a little bit further right now. But it also just like you can't change the past, so I don't like, you know. Yeah, no regrets. Yeah, no regrets. Don't linger on that idea. But I do know that if I was more open to change when I first started were like more open to learning, I would say I'd be in a better spot than them in right now. And and I'll kind of wrap it up with this question. Is there any piece of advice you could just give somebody who maybe on the cusp has a conviction that they want to follow this dream or this passion and they haven't quite made the leap yet? What would you say to them? I think just do it. You know what I mean? Just like, just fucking chill. What's to lose? Yeah, what's to lose? And also, like, we're, you know, we're like in the grand scheme of things where young guys, like, like I don't get what all the fuss is about, you know what I mean? Like, if we went bankrupt tomorrow, if we go broke tomorrow, like. Like it wouldn't really be that. But you know what I mean? It wouldn't be that bad, dude. Like I was on the verge of homelessness in January. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, you're not going to become homeless. Like, if you in the homeless market, if you can find a job, you can find a job. You know what I mean? You can do something like I started doing. I was like, financially, I was in a bad spot, just like, work it like writing over the last few months, just because I put everything into the books. And so I started doing like freelance copywriting, literally just like cold out reach to 100 businesses a day. And I picked up like three or four clients. And now I'm, I think by the end of April, maybe like the middle of May, I will be making as much as I was from my 9 to 5 job as I as I'll be making as much as I was in my 9 to 5 job as I am now doing fucking freelance copywriting and I mean unbelievable and congratulate Asians that thank you. It's just but it's literally just like I, you know, I just did it and anyone has the ability to do it. It's just like having the confidence to like, finally make that leap. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So is there anywhere, like where can people go find your books? Like, where can they find you if they want to reach out to you Have any questions? My Instagram is Dunne.cillian. D u n n e dot c i l l i a n and yeah, Instagram and then my books are pretty much all on Amazon. You can get them in a few different places, but Amazon is the cheapest and the best part. Jillian Well, I appreciate you coming out and it was a pleasure to have you. Thank you dude a pleasure to be here. All right. Well, that concludes the episode for of Shaking Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. You can find me on Instagram at Blue Collar Kid That is blue collar K-E-H-D. If you like the show, please subscribe and tune in again. Reach out to me on Instagram. If you have any questions or feedback or suggestions for people you want to have on the show or questions that you'd like to be answered. But other than that, tune in next time for more interesting conversations and guests. Thanks, guys, for.