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Thanks for listening
Host: Jack Moran
Powered by: DreamSpear
Follow Shakin' Hands Podcast
Website
Instagram
YouTube
Dreamspear
Website
Instagram
Skool
SEE YOU NEXT WEEK!
Hello and welcome to episode seven of Shaken Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. You can find me on Instagram at Blue Collar Kid that is blue collar K-E-H-D. We have a super special guest today, one of my good buddies and the founder of YEW Inc, a sustainable wax company. What's going on Hogan? I was well, I said, I thought you were going to mess that up. No, I got that. Hey, we're working on it. How are you doing? Am I talking to you? Close on the mic, but, you know, figure it out as we go. Oh, good. The theme of this podcast, as I told you, is to hopefully inspire entrepreneurs to make or people who are young people to make the leap into entrepreneurship or just chase their passions and dreams. and you're someone who is doing that. So we had a pretty crazy start to the day we got to the shop and, there was a little foul play. Looks like somebody broke into the broke into the store. so we're here in the apartment now filming the podcast. Yeah. You know, I mean, never a dull day at, you know, the hive, but, you know, just outside the plot. It's pretty ironic. Take is enough. I don't know what it. Four and a half years I've been there, you know, we've had some some ups and downs, but never anything like this. So, you know, the fact that you guys are here and it was up and I was like, probably should have been rolling for that. But you know, I keep chipping away. So we're all good and yeah the apartments sorry. Right. But you know. Yeah. So how did you get started? What was your, what was the journey into entrepreneurship? It's a good question. I mean, I think for me, I always joke, as I was saying before, you know, it's like glorified arts and crafts for the purpose, in a sense, where, you know, I may not mean anything to many people. I can expand on that later, but, yeah, for me, you know, I grew up playing a lot of sports. you know, I always like to compete. Obviously you win. Sometimes you lose a lot more times. And, you know, I, I think going through certain processes in life for me, you always, you know, I always want to try and build stuff whether that was, you know, friendship with teammates, trying to win games or, you know, whatever, going to school, trying to do your best. you know, all the above. But yeah, basically for me, it was accumulation of a lot of things. And, yeah, I, you know, I, I stumbled upon you know, this first project of mine, which, you know, we can talk about more. Yeah. How did you get into, like, the wax business? Yeah. I think for me, when I first got out to California was around 2018. I had grown up surfing. but, you know, I was surf and a lot more once I'd got out here was going to school, you know, the, company that I'd been using for, you know, more or less my entire life. Great product. You know, in a sense, good brand. But it, you know, it wasn't sustainable. but it was something that I was using all the time. So, you know, for me, I wanted to say around the sports I grew up playing, you know, long as hockey. Another one was surfing. Both, use wax in a sense. And, you know, it's never to discredit another company or anything like that. But yeah, I saw, you know, an opportunity. But to actually make something that, you know, taught me around sports, but also, you know, in a sense where the world is getting more environmentally friendly, which is a good thing, you know, no matter which way you go, it's, you know, you can look at the environment's kind of like cleaning a room, like you need clean rooms sometimes maybe, maybe not. But it's always good to have a clean room. So it's like with the environment, if you do small things to, you know, make a change. you know, that's where for me, wax was a small thing that if you could find a better way to do it and then also make it perform well, there was a whole, you know, let's say, in the market. But just like in reality, you know, the social sphere of it. And yeah, took time to, you know, make a product work. But at the same time, too, I think, you know, we really do care about the environmental side. But for something to, you know, last long term it's got to work well. And for me that definitely take my, you know, but for the first few years you can say as you know, as you say, I didn't I did have this like pegged. I usually, you know, start running with it, but anyways, yeah. Like, you know, it's obviously sports are difficult. I think the cool thing about like this though, is something where you really are playing against yourself, and obviously there's competition. But the cool thing about the competitions, everyone's like, well, there's competitors or people do this and they say that. It's like, I don't know, you never showed up to any place and you weren't the only person there trying out. You weren't the only person getting in. It's like, I think that's where, you know, you take all that stuff from, you know, you pass around on a call and you put into this and yeah, for me, like I said, it's, you know, accumulation of a lot of stuff. So when you, you started the company when you came out here and moved out to California. So what did that look like in the very beginning? How did you make like the decision? Like what was it like jumping into it? Was it scary? Did you or you just like, fight it? This is what I'm doing or, it's a good question. I think, you know, like I said, they want to stick around stuff. So for me, it was pretty natural. and I was excited to, you know, focus my energy on something else. As someone who very regimented and obviously it wasn't the highest level. You know, I also had been playing, but at the same time, to do certain level of sports where you're always going to the rink, you're always doing stuff, whatever it is, and like, you know, you spend a lot of time focusing on like certain goals or certain things. And obviously, you know, school is good and hobbies are good and all that. But like for me, it was good to focus on, like, you know, a goal. And for me it was, can you actually make something that even in the short term, can sustain you having an excuse to maybe go surf 2 or 3 times a day instead of like, you know, doing something else, but, yeah. So for me, I jumped right into it. But at the same time, too, you know, in context, as far as, like the business side goes, it was something where you see the hole in the market, you see a product that you know is essential in a sense, you know, always be around no matter how boards change. Yes. You know, some people say you won't need to use wax at certain points, but there's no point in not putting a little bit of something on. So if you look at in like nitty gritty terms, an essential good, something that you know has been around forever will continue to be around. But like, you know, like I said, not not great for the environment. So can you make it more sustainable? Okay, that's one task. Then you'll obviously have competitors. Yes. You can like patent pending something, but it does come down to like a recipe. How do you make the best recipe? How do you get it off the shelf? Stacks wax, you know, is a the brand and a great brand. You know, for a long time they still are. But, you know, the environmental side isn't good. And, you know, there is, you know, Bloomberg, the terminal. No, it's like a it's like a financial terminal. But basically years ago, I was sitting in a desk, when I was in school. And, you know, I was like an internship, a bank, whatever. Bloomberg. It's like a magazine or something, right? Yeah. You're talking inside. Bloomberg's like a financial terminal. So it's like, if you want to be in terminal, it's like, basically like a plug in. I'm not good with technical in terms of basically if you're like in a, you know, a bank and you need to get certain information or you need to communicate with people to plug in to like your system where everyone communicates, there is like a forum, a forum basically. Gotcha. Yeah. They we we can either keep that in there to show my like definitions or, you know, like cut that out. But anyways, yeah. So whatever they yeah, it's a forum but I think it's more than that. But anyways, I own a lot. So when I blew in Vegas, my Bloomberg. But long story short, yeah, they there was an article I was published. I basically said like top ten, top ten mom and pop shops that won big or something like that. And Dell Computer, Haagen-Dazs, Yankee Candle like weird things. And I think he was like number seven on the list. And Dell was number eight. It was on Xbox. And, you know, the only thing was what was surfing. Question mark. It's the name that sold. And, you know, if you look at how the culture was, you know, in certain industries outside of surfing where, you know, sex was glorified and all this other stuff like a name sold and it got buyers off the shelf. But also there was definitely, you know, less competitors. That and so for me, obviously sustainability was good. But like, you know, it's really hard to be, you know, branding is a big thing. And that's where you know, a word like you always cracked. I usually do better, Yeah. You know, it's it's been used specifically in like, you know, surf culture for a long time. But even if you go, like a Canadian hockey tournament or upstate, like, you know, it depends on the teams, it varies. But like, you do hear the word like you. What do you. Scotty? Yeah. If I gave you my voice is crack and I'm usually I say it all the time. I should be way better at it right now, but, So it was a long night last. I was a good comedy show, a long night. but anyways, that party's at you as well. Yeah. You know, we we do our. We do our best. We try, we try, we try, but, Yeah, I was I go with that a little off to enter there the branding of you name the exact as a how could I forget. so yeah. So basically words that are out a lot of sports that, you know, I had resonated with and and, you know, it's an expression, obviously you could look it up on Google and say expression stoic, all these different things. But like for us it was something that just that the sound, not even the word, the sound, something that people resonated with, very auditory. And, you know, I was, you know, you go look on of shelf and like, SAG swag sells, but like, y you w like you and The voice, if you're, you know, someone who's just getting into the sport and you're out getting lessons or you hear stuff, there's a good chance you can hear that word and you know, the to draw correlation to a product, to a word. You know, I thought it was good. But it also, you know, the bigger goal being that if you're making something that's sustainable, you got to get it off the shelf in some way. And, you know, I'd say a lot of the times people think something sustainable, they question how good it's going to perform. And I think like paper straws, really good example. You know, paper straw works works great as a concept but as a functioning product, not the things disintegrate and and it's, it's, you know, it's this is tough thing where. Yes, obviously you want to stop plastic waste, but if stops falling apart and it's pissing people off, they're going to go to another alternative. And if it's not sustainable, it just goes into this whole spiral. So for us, I did think that making the actual wax, let's just say, would be easier. You know, it's just wax melts some stuff. You've been seeking something that you don't and should just work, but you realize that, like natural ingredients, they really, they work with the environment. If it's cold, they get hard. If it's hot, they melt. And and let's say, even, like, you know, surfing or hockey, that's two totally different sports. But at the same time it's water. And, you know, the ice versus the air temperature. And the rink is different. So change the structure, the wax, the air temperature, the humidity, let's say even like in Panama where you are versus yes, the water is going to be warmer than it is here. But still that change in temperature changes how the ice works, where if it was like chemically enhanced or you're working with paraffin where, you know, even soy, how those things are broken down, they withstand certain temperature changes and allow them to do, you know, certain things. Whereas beeswax. So our main ingredient, beeswax, stays around for forever. In a sense. I think this is even online like so I can look this up. But there's like even like articles where like, beeswax has been found in tombs from like the Egyptians. Obviously beeswax is still durable. Don't get me wrong. It's more the fact that the other stuff, the way it's enhanced unnaturally, that it allows it to work in certain ways. So for us, I was like the big, big learning curve, but we, you know, how to do it, to perform and still be sustainable. Exactly. They take away you're like a mad scientist with the wax as you were like developing this company. Was it all smooth sailing or, a lot of hurdles. Like, we talked a lot about adversity on this. Totally. I mean, like, let's just start with how the day started. We're shooting the environment right now. We should have been shooting at the shop. And, you know, I'd say that that's a tiny thing, but I think it's like one of those things where it's not the hardest part, but I'd say for like this and a company, especially in like niche sports or shoe whatever you want to call it, like it's patience and it's kind of bad, like through it and like earning your stripes, like in the sense of, yeah, like the cash flows are different. It's not like you sell one day and like you're like, you're crazy and you got to volume. I mean, you're selling a lot of stuff. So that's an issue, not an issue. But you know, that's a hard you know, it's a hurdle. We've thankfully, you know, been able to figure it out. And you know a lot of our areas and you know we're expanding to other spots. But now that just like in other countries, hundreds of stores, whatever it is, but like that didn't come overnight. It took years. Whereas like I think if you ask, you know, I joke like ignorance is bliss. My naive self allowed us to like do a bunch of stuff till I got here. But trust me, I think I knew it was going to be tough, but I did not think, you know, certain things would have been as much. I think for me that you it's, you know, we're all young here and it's more like figuring yourself out with this stuff because, like, I used to think I knew so much more about, like, business and work and like all this stuff where, like, I realize every day you don't know jack shit, but, like, at the same time, the more you don't know, the more you figure out if that makes any sense. And it's like, right, we've we've chipped away. But yeah, there definitely hurdles. And I mean like Nitty gritty is on in this short. Like I've always joked about this, my first formula as a ratio didn't even equal hundred percent. Let's say my elementary school math wasn't even correct. I didn't know percentages equal like 113. So when you're doing that, it's like, wait, like this kid. Like anyways, point is that probably should have been a scientist to start. But I'd say, you know, we were fortunate enough through the idea and connections in life that we had Stanford interns. We had a good team growing up, and it was one of those things where and they were all great, like love them. But like, think of this like I'm a history major, figuring it out. And, you know, through a good friend of mine who helped with the logo and, you know, other stuff, you know, he's a great guy, but he, you know, through that we we connected with other people and because of sustainability, because, you know, we're all young girl, you know, all trying to do stuff like we did have opportunities where, you know, at no point in time was when I was, let's say, playing hockey or surfing and all that. Was I ever thinking about applying to Stanford? And you're sitting in like a room and you're like, oh, well, you have an opportunity to get an intern and that intern, you know, whatever. But like, there usually doesn't happen when you're in the college dorm room. So the point is, is it started off while you're thinking like, oh, great, like, we got this, you know, we got the environment, we got a great name. We all around sports logos. Cool. We know about branding and we got a ton of energy. And you know, this is going to be sick and I think that we yeah we you know as you know you get you get kicked around a bunch and you know, you get hidden sports you get you don't make teams, you don't do well on certain tasks, you know, until whatever it is like, that stuff sucks. But I think, you know, you learn from it. Whereas this though, when it's like a very like one on one game and you're worried about, let's say, people around you and money and everything else, it's like, you know, you realize like it's real life, whereas you paid to play sports or you paid to go to school or, you know, whatever it is. And like you get to the point where I'm fortunate to have, you know, a great support system, whether it is through family and friends. But, you know, I've definitely yeah, I've definitely been tough along the way, too, because, you know, I like to think that, you know. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's tough. So definitely ups and downs, but that's all part of it. And I think that's where, you know, you hope that you do this one correct answer the first of many and that you can continue to, you know, grow and build. And I used to say like always be building in the sense of like sounds kind of corny, but it's like, no each day try and do you better stuff. And like, that doesn't mean you gotta get rid of all your bad habits at once. Who am I? Like, I got, you know, a party and, you know, party later on, like, you know, whatever it is, but at the same time too, like, now. Like, I like if you're like in the, in the balance board or you're into this like, make sure you do that, like all the time. Like, I just, I like how I can just be like, do a hundred pushups a day. Shit, I probably should have. I would have been better and I would have looked way cooler. But I'm like, you know, like I don't need to do pushups. You have to for. And I'm like, my arms are shaking. I'm like, I'll just go play video games. You know? Granted, catch 22 all roads lead to like, you know, adult league sports and whatever. But like I still play a little bit of video games in there and it's like, you know I got both. So maybe, maybe not all the push ups. But that time spend playing, you know, a little cello, Call of Duty. Yeah. You know. Oh yeah. And like, it's a true testament even seeing you how you handled that situation with the store break in like entrepreneurship is about, you know, keeping your temperament and staying calm during adversity. And most people, they come to their storefront and somebody try to break in with a crowbar and is I mean, I never knew the wax company or wax industry was so hostile. And they rip out your plants, like would be freaking the fuck out. But you rebounded. You stayed completely cool. It was just like another day in the life of an entrepreneur. We're here on the podcast now, not even thinking about it. So it's like, that really is the testament of a true entrepreneur is like staying calm during a situation like that. And you can see that you're experienced like us, for this part of this, right? Like, forget it for bad. I mean, clearly things happen enough that, you know, you get used to it. I think years ago, yeah, I would have been bugging out. I mean, trust me, I was still like, this sucks. What the fuck is going on? But, you know, obviously cooler heads prevail. We figured it out. But now it's been a learning curve like for me and yeah, through time and through all this. And that's what I think you know once. Yeah. Like at our age we have the ability more in a sense where, yeah you got responsibilities. But like let's be real. They're they're way less than, you know, even even people that are younger that have families and all that stuff. Like there's a lot more stuff where, you know, for me it's like, okay, yeah, these things kick you in the butt. I definitely could be better a lot of ways, but at the same time, too, like, shit, we're learning. We're all trying. Yeah, you now. And you know, I think that and it's certainly not going to be the last time something fucking happens, you know? So I mean that's like nothing and no, you know, you have to expect the adversity that I was laying it to you like, oh, if you go steal the products as long as like it goes to somewhere so you don't burn it like shit is free marketing, like whatever. But like, that's not saying go, don't be thieves. I know that. But yeah, no, I it is what it is like. I think it's one of those things where, you know, editing an app and then, you know, you play the game, shit happens. But that, that is something where that doesn't happen often. So I was that I don't that was an anomaly. Yeah. It's you know, but what's the worst thing that's ever happened to you on your entrepreneurship journey? That's a good question. You want to like the business side of the emotional side. Whatever you look at. I'd say that none of honestly, none of it is bad. It's all part of it. I think the fact that, you know, I take things very seriously, and I think it allows me to get to like a certain level of energy. But I think at the same time, too, you like, you know, at certain phases in life, like you take some things maybe too seriously or too tough and, you know, yeah, you maybe burn a couple bridges or, you know, do stuff or. Yeah, I think for me it was like, is people like, when you're young, I, you know, I make stuff where I, I hope that you bring people together. But you realize that like expectations, you know, some people don't understand startup, you know, and even me at a time like you want to do your best, but I. Yeah, thing for me, it's like, you know, let's say like, you know, my family, they're super supportive. But, you know, I've definitely been tougher on them through this process because I'm more in my head, you hear noise. You know, obviously you say like, oh, you don't like comments or you don't, but, you know, people, in fact, you don't let anyone get in your ad. But it gets to a point where, you know, you hear a lot of noise. And I think because of that, you know, I've definitely, you know, edgy or whatever that is. But for me, that's I'd say the biggest negative, but also the biggest learning thing because I think for us, we're making stuff a lot. A big part of its use is people. And you don't want to manage people because, you know, then you're managing them, but you want to be able to relate to people. And I think that going through all this stuff, you know, it humbles you, kicks your ass, then you also get cocky. And it's like this whole crazy thing of like, I don't have itself into a self-induced stutter now, ADHD, but, you know, it's it's like an emotional storm. It's just this whole thing. And I think that's, you know, figuring it all out. Whereas I give credit to, you know, older people that are trying to do this stuff, they have, you know, yeah, like I said, a lot of different responsibilities because I think that's when it gets tough. And so it's better to start early. It's it's easy to hide in your, you know, in your apartment or in your hive and go make wax, you know, figure all this stuff out in your head and build. And I think, like, that's where it's cool. Whereas if you're sitting at a desk job, you're focus and there's nothing against it. I have a lot of pride with people doing it. I think it's, you know, it's awesome. But you're yes, you're thinking about your job, but you're thinking about so much of like, you know, and this is me speaking from experience. I, you know, I obviously I run things different ways, but like, you know, I'm sitting there thinking of what do I need to get done to get through the day? Where is this? I feel like lazy, if that makes sense. We're always going, but I never feel like you're getting enough done. And like, that's where, like, folding a box and, like, pointing them like I can't see it, but like, that's where, like, folding a box or seeing a finished product, like, you know, that to me is therapeutic in the sense of like, all right, cool. Like we actually like check something off the list. Whereas I think everything else is like, always in motion and, you know, the always in motion part. Yeah, it is definitely harder to deal with, I guess, you know, years ago and we're all with it. But you know, hopefully, you know, how do you deal with the noise, listen to it sometimes and tune it out the other times? And how do you tune it out? You just keep listening to it and you start to ignore it. I think he gets to a level of like, the more I know it. Yeah, like the feedback is good, but like getting emotional about it and bringing the emotion and letting it affect your decisions. Yeah. Is bad I think. Yeah. No, I agree with you. And I think for me like it's one of those things where let's say like chips or like someone talking shit like, you know, some people don't like getting, like, nudged. I personally, like, just fires you all those fire. So like, if you're like, yo, like you're red, like, obviously I don't look at, like, cloudy on this thing right now. Watch this. And you're doing a great job. And I'll be like, yeah, guys, I like such a fool. But like to the point where, oh, like, should I be more businessy? Should I be shaking it? And like, you think of all these things and it's like, you know, but even that thought process that you're going through, like, just makes you, you. And it's good to get that like internal look at, like how your brain works. You know, it's not like it is just that character, just you even, analyzing that is what makes you. Yeah, exactly. And but it's but it's an interesting thing where I think sometimes like fewer words, though, it gets the job done. So like, when you're listening, like, I'm not a, you know, I won't say I'm not a big reader. Big podcasts like, I like things, but because there's so much noise, I know what I need to get done right now. And I've already heard a lot of advice where I'm like, you know what? And that's like everyone else, like, we all got a lot of shit to say and everyone's doing their own thing, but like, do your own thing and like, you'll figure it out through the process. What's the best use of your time? Interesting. So a chain of it changes because you obviously get spreads in and to like bullshit you don't want to do. But like if you could spend all your time on one thing, what would be the most beneficial thing to you as a company? That's a good question. I think that this can be perceived as laziness because my younger self would have been like, no, you always got to be on live. There's something about sitting down, turning all the lights off, putting like noise on for like hours. I know it sounds like psycho, but I agree. But you learn and you go through all these things where you then go, okay, I just sat down for so long that I haven't done it, and you get an ANC and that kind of like stuff. You know what you've learned through experiences and like, you know, like I keep going back to sports, but the same thing in school, like, obviously study date or stuff, like there's certain tasks that, you know, you may get a paper that was assigned at the start of the semester, but you're saying it's like the night before and like, shit, you still got to get that thing done. So like to the point where I think it's the same thing with the company. If you're doing something in a startup level for like an extended period of time, you got to get caught in like this time warp and you think that either you're not doing enough or you're doing too much, and then you're manic and then, you know, there's certain energy is a bad and then the people around you, whatever, whatever. But to the point where I'm going is you sit down for me to be able to think and like, kind of, let's say, envision what I want to be doing next and then to be so pissed off at myself that I just sat there for four hours thinking about the show with the lights off. It's weird. I go out there and I do it, but like, I kind of like, you know, it's I think I hate when people say rinse and repeat, but it's true. Like just doing stuff over and over again. Like it helps. And I've, I've seen that to be the biggest thing because when I'm kind of clear in the visions, clear, you're that able to work better with the people around you. And you know, if it's all you know, I used to like, I still, you know, love folding bars and making wax because you see a finished good. So like that's good. But as far as like other stuff, it is nice to be able to slowly, you know, put responsibility within like, you know, like I say like my teammates. And that helps us get, you know, a different spot. Whereas like, I'm still the kind of kid though, that like, yeah, like I, I want to be doing everything because I don't like if you take pride in the branding, if I don't like if I'm your baby. But but in the exact thing, I mean, also they go on the day before and I think that. Yeah, like, it's a weird thing, but like, yeah, like you really do, like you put so much time and like, you kind of it's tunnel vision in a sense. And yeah, that's what I was going like emotions and stuff in the past that you. Yeah. Like it's just, you know, and it's interesting that you're saying that you visualize like, I don't know if you've ever heard the study where they talk about like they, they did a, an experiment with these NBA, it was either NBA or college basketball players. And they divided them into three groups. One group. It was a free throw competition. So one group they had continue practicing shooting free throws. And obviously they tested them before. So however many free throws this group had on average was like the baseline number. Then they took one of the three groups and had them shoot free throws in practice every day. As usual, they had the second group completely stop doing anything. basketball. I'm not even thinking about basketball. And then the third group, they just had them visualize shooting free throws, and the results were the group that stopped playing basketball completely. They declined from their original baseline number, the group that was practicing and shooting free throws every single day. I'm going to butcher these numbers. I think they increased, like 16 or 17% in the group that just sat there and visualized them shooting free throws. It was 1% below whatever the group was that that was shooting free throw. So like that time like it really does like manifested into reality. When you're using your imagination like that neuroplasticity, you're you're materializing that imagination as a very good way of applauding that. No, I completely agree. Like and in a sense where obviously everyone's different, but I do. Yeah, there's proof in the pudding and I you know, I'd like to see that study. Well my but I like to see that study go a little further and say, okay, what was the next year. So the guys or the girls or whomever it was that shot, you know, just 1% below what happened the next 48 hours, if they're both practicing at the same rate, because I think that's the biggest. Yeah. That's interesting. That's what you're saying because it's like, okay. Like because that's what the point I'm trying to make, there's like, okay, I visualize it and am I wasting time? Am I being lazy because like any because I always say like, anyone can sit there and think about something. A lot of people have ideas and like, you know, I've been told that over and over again because I like to think, oh, I got a lot of ideas, but like it is about execution, like you got to you got to do it. So I think it gets misconstrued or at least like, you know, for me, I say like, oh, like I'm sitting around like I'm not doing anything. And it's like, no. Like I look back and the more long things that I wrote to myself or the more things, you know, I spit balled with on my computer or whatever, it was like I could physically see all those things in the room that whereas like, yeah, like I could, you know, you can make stuff. But I think the quality, the details and all that stuff is like, yeah, what what potentially gets you to longevity. And like I keep saying to you, like, for me, I like this shit like it, obviously, you know, you need money to to do good things and you need money to support people and you need money to grow. So, you know, that's where. Yeah, money. Money is still, you know, as people say, money is still king. But at the same time too, it's like, yeah, like if you could find a way. I'm saying like a bunch here. Because clearly I haven't thought this fully through, but it's like, you know, if you can find ways to make money but still do what you care about, I think that's where, you know, the, the whole sell for me is, is that. Yeah. You know, take a risk on it, try it, do what you can do. And it's not going to be easy and in a sense where like, you could be a genius, like on paper in any sense, you can be whatever it is and sometimes don't have the grit, but sometimes it goes great and like or sometimes it doesn't. And like, you know, it could be grit or it could be character, could be this, but it's like everyone's still trying. So like, I give credit to anyone who's like trying. That being said, you asked that question two years ago now, like I'm competitive. I'm like, oh, it like they're doing that. Like I got to beat them. But it's like, no, you want to. Especially the people around you. Like, you know, you like I want to see the more you see your your friends, your family, people do well. Like, you know, whomever it is, even people in your past lives, when I like the more people do well like the better that is. And like, you know, I think that's where that sometimes gets like misconstrued as soft because then you bring it back to like, sports. It's like, no, you got to be competitive though still, because to do while you still need to compete. And I think that for me is like the, the tough part the further we get in the process. I was probably more competitive. The word empathy is a funny thing, but like less empathetic then. Whereas I always joke that I'm a little more like at least, you know, recently a little more like not timid, but softer, but it it works in a sense where, you know. Yeah, you realize especially like in a place where we're, you know, everyone's trying to figure it out. You have employees that are already your teammates, that are agents, like, we're all going through stuff. And, you know, I think you said that like a desk job. And it's like one of those things where it's more difficult to sometimes talk to the person next to you, whereas, you know, you're in a play, the cigars, you're making wax, you're filling boxes, you're shooting content like it does feel more of like a family. And, you know, that's where yeah, like that's got its ups and downs. But it's something that you know. Yeah. We it's a it's also a good thing too. So you, you say before like and you've said a couple times like how you're really competitive. Is there anybody that you would want to look in the face when this is all over. And say, I told you so, like, is there anyone that you're doing this for to be like myself? Straight up? Yeah. I think that's like the best way to say it because I years ago I would given you a list, I still got a list of like, oh yeah, I don't, I want to beat some people. I just fucking literally. But I had the idea that, like, that's where if we're really winning, it's like, not like I can fuck everybody else. Yeah, like you like it, but like, also to you, like, you know. Yeah, I like, I like, I like the game though. Like, if everyone wasn't playing like that and like, you know, whatever. But so yeah, you know, you're not myself. I do not like bottom line but like genuinely like, however. Yeah, if my toes gets out like I like to be, it's fun to say fuck and it doesn't like it doesn't hurt me as well. Like if you were to me like, yo, fuck you, I'm going to beat you. I'm like, I like, say, let's go, let's go to the Thunderdome. Yeah, I'll meet you in the arena and there's a chance that, you know, like I said, yeah, you win some, you lose a lot. But like, it's all relative. And like for me, it's like. Yeah. Like, you know. So I think it's more like I keep saying the process of building stuff, the process of like, you know, ourselves like that's where for me, you know, I think I could have gone out there and potentially made like a different comedy, done different things. But, you know, it wouldn't have been the same, at least to start where that, you know, hockey, surfing. I just like being around sports. That's something I could resonate with. And that's allowed this process to be, let's say like a little bit easier when you're dealing with it. Whereas like, you know, if I was dealing with something that wasn't as I'd say, I was knowledgeable in wax, but at least I liked like the sports, you know, it made that part easier. But at the same time, too, it's, you know, it's it's always a challenge. But basically I'm saying do the shit that you like to do. And, you know, if you have the opportunity to figure out awesome. But at the same time, you, I, you know, I think that people find opportunities, but like, you know, obviously supports a big thing. You know, if I, if I didn't out of the support that I had, whether it was friends or family like it's hard to do. And that's where I think, though. Talk about the dark room. You really put like people in it. That's where you see some people really excel though, and I'm like, dang, thats impressive and they're really coming from like a really tough spot in there, you know, doing it. There's something to that. There's a reason why those people figure it out. And I think like that's, you know, that's an interesting bar too. So, you know, but how do you define success? Like what are you chasing after? years ago I would have said money and happiness or whatever. But now just, to your question before to kind of be able to tell myself I told you so like, that's that's where I don't know what the definition or the psychoanalysis on that would be. But yeah, like, you know, I want to win and I don't necessarily want, I want to win that. But sure, it would it be cool to have, you know, enough money to do cool things to, to make and buy cool things, maybe make more, you know, sports teams to maybe open up more events in different countries to maybe, you know, be able to bring people to different places and create more, you know, whatever it is. Or you can go on and on about it, but like, yeah, that's where, you know, in a world where you need money that's, you know, the hope would be to have that. But as I always say, like, it's not like I have a dream for like a cars or knows what it. Would it be nice to to have a cool place where everyone can come and use. Great. But I think at the same time too, none of that within the past few years even comes into mind. Whereas like when I started, that was like, it'd be great to have all these like I call like sprinkles, like all that good shit, but like, but then it's like what's really good because you could sell or make something that, you know, you do a lot of people and do a lot of bad shit and probably make money or do whatever it is. Whereas like for us, we try and you know, I think that it's taken longer and, you know, whatever. But we're we're yeah, we're trying to figure it out. So, you know, what would, Hogan today tell Hogan 5 or 6 years ago or whenever, you know, he started the company? It's a good question, a lot of things, but, yeah, I'd I'd say that. Keep going. It's taken longer than you would have thought to keep going. and, yeah. Stay healthy, stay healthy, stay out. I think that's interesting. We're young, but still, I think that's what I tell myself. And there's as far as. Yeah. Because, you know, when it with, you know, in mind as far as the business goes, it's it's personal, I care. But as far as anyone watching this, like you don't necessarily need to like fully know what you're doing or fully care, it kind of comes along the way. And yeah, just just trying to do something like if you feel like this like thing in your gut that, yo, I should go do something, try it out and if you're crazy enough and competitive enough that, like, you know, the idea still sits with you a few months later, half a year later, a year later, like, you know, push away at it and if you don't get there, you're not lazy, but you just really don't like the idea that much. And I say that's where it's like, you know. Yeah, if so, this is kind of my final question. If you had $1 million of guilt free money right now that you could deploy to the company, what would you use it on? I would say for us would be more like working with more sustainable beekeepers, bees, century beekeepers, finding a way to support them. So we're, you know, sourcing from different places, creating more jobs. And, you know, obviously we won't even we wouldn't even need $1 million for that. So, you know, once you do that, you want to keep that growing long term. Some of the money would go to, you know, supporting our team. and then the rest of it would be going to we've done a pretty good job of always at least trying to be real. And, you know, our marketing is good sometimes a little cheesy, but that's what sells, you know, these days and gets clicks. And I think part of that would be, going into marketing, whether that's finding a way to support more athletes and, you know, helping their narrative of them being more sustainable, but also using something that's, you know, a little more new school that, you know. So I think there's there's tiers to that million dollars. But if it was just again, here's $1 million, you know, outside of the business, I honestly couldn't tell you, you know, and I think that's a business is your life that that that that's where you know what I as simple as we all I give it you know, I I'd pay back you know for my family taking care of me for my I have a up you know, all that stuff. But you know, that's where the to call for that. I wouldn't want that. That's that's my point is it's a different, you know, a different thing. So anyways, what are some like final comments that you would give to someone that maybe like thinking about barreling into the journey of entrepreneurship or is just getting started out? Like I said, if you feel like you should be doing something, give it a try. If it sticks, keep going with it. don't force a project, but if it seems like a good opportunity and you haven't fully figured out what you want to do yet, it's probably a cool opportunity to at least learn a couple of things and get creative. So yeah. No. Yeah. Take any opportunity you can to go and build an work hard and you know, know that it's going to be tough. But hey like it. It'll work out. It just depends on what level you're looking for it to work out. So you know yeah everyone measures it differently. Where can where can people find you? Where can they buy your stuff? Our website is. You stoked? Y w stockhead.com. we do a lot of online sales where and like, you know, over 300 stores in the US and, you know, North America for hockey, pure hockey being, you know, one of the bigger ones, monkey sports being another, you know, nod to this is going to go out. So not that there are watches, but you know, everyone that's, you know, all the stores, all their buyers appreciate this part down. You'll watch this. But if you do it just throw that in there. You know. But all to all the to all the kids that are. Yeah. You know just just as for you that any of your, you know, hockey shops as far as surf shops goes, you know, we're in a bunch, but I'd say, you know, go more, you know, online for us that allows us to, you know, support more of our, you know, beekeepers and all that other stuff and, you know, whatever. But at the same time too. Yeah. You can find some bars in Panama. This guy's been a legend at it. So, you know, we're we're figuring that all out too. And, you know, maybe for, you know, we'll do round to you of this in Panama with the boys and. Yeah, you know, although I don't know, it's up to, you know, if I get invited back, you know, I love the brand. So it's, like, easy for me to just, like, plug it to people. I think it's a sig brand. So it's like, yeah, it's an easy pass through for me. Like. And it's a good present. I think that the last one I did was like, it's made like a donation to some surf kids. Yeah, yeah. He, he knows good business like he's, he pays on time. He does the right thing. And that's where there's longevity. Oh yeah. You know like that's right of the men. But you know your favorite, my favorite term that you ever told me was watch for nerds. I see him all the time. Now, I just want you to know it was exactly I. And honestly, I don't even know if I could. I definitely didn't coin that. I heard that, so you're the first person I ever heard that from. I heard it randomly, so it honestly could have even been on TV. That's where, like I try not to use, but it is like you don't hear too often, but so it's as we all did. I was like, crack it up and I did. I used it with you, that is it's one of the. So that's where that was a couple of years ago. I talked a lot more shit back then. And it's like you realize everyone's trying to figure it out but still don't lose the competitive side. You know, I still look at like this man, you know, coming from the in the pink early. But you know, don't let that fool you. So either I rather well I appreciate you coming on other side out. Thanks a lot. All right. Well that concludes episode seven of Shaking Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. You can find me on Instagram at Blue Collar kid that is blue collar KEHD. If you like what you heard today or saw, please tune in next time for some more interesting conversations and people. Thanks guys. See you later.