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Thanks for listening
Host: Jack Moran
Powered by: DreamSpear
Follow Shakin' Hands Podcast
Website
Instagram
YouTube
Dreamspear
Website
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Skool
SEE YOU NEXT WEEK!
Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 11 of Shakin’ Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. You can find me on Instagram at Blue Collar Kid that is blue Collar KEHD. Today we have on the show Kurt Sowers, the founder of Soco Group. What's going on? Kurt? Great intro. I appreciate it, Jack. Yeah. Another man come in. Middle of workday, actually. Awesome. Yeah. Every day is a workday when you're entrepreneur, right? That's right. That is. Yeah. So what are you working on currently? Give us a little background on what you're, what you're up to now. Yes. so the group, we're commercial general contractors. I founded it, a little over three years ago now, and it's, something that I have been doing and been in construction most of my adult life. Worked in and out of the trades, worked for other general contractors. I was a site superintendent leading up to this for seven plus years, professionally and then, you know, undercover to win a brand. So I got my license and the focus was commercial construction. Okay. So how what made you instead of just, like, working for someone else and continuing down that path, I wasn't. You start your own company. Oh, man. I think that my days were numbered. You know, I think it's just kind of my personality. That was, it's just his natural course. And I think that with, honestly, a lot of blue collar guys is you just. You end up working so hard for somebody else, and you, you just have that that moment where you say, all right, I'm gonna go do it for myself now. So what did that look like in the beginning? Like, how did you make that leap? What was the initial step? So yeah, I mean, initially, man, I didn't have, it was during Covid. I didn't have any money saved up. I just said, fuck it. And, it was a very, you know, I think Covid really it either hurt a lot of people or it helped a lot of people. And for me, I took it as a challenge. And I said, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna step up and make the best out of this situation. And so that's what I got the motivation to branch out of my own, go get my license and develop a business plan. Yeah, I was kind of in the same boat, like Covid hit I had in the back of my mind, wanted to start a business, and I was living up in Massachusetts. That's where I'm from. And okay, we're in full lockdown. So it was like, what else is there to do? I guess I'll just start like, yeah, getting things built out. So like starting a business with no capital, I kind of. What were your first steps? finding finding business, finding a paycheck. Okay. So how did you go? Source clients. So, fortunately, I had been building. My first few clients came from townhomes. I used to build townhomes for a developer here in town, and my first few clients were old clients that I had built townhomes for. And I just shot out a bunch of feelers when I went out on my own. And, you know, during Covid, there was this this surge of people wanting home renovations done. so it was actually worked out quite well. I had I had a steady stream of business right off the bat. And it was it was small stuff. You know, we're talking Dex little, you know, little additions, bathroom renovations, that sort of stuff. Real small work, but it was a steady flow of work where I could at least put some money in my pocket, start to build the relationships with my subcontractors, and start to figure out how to be a general contractor. You know, on my own. How do you start developing those relationships? What do you think the key is to a good relationship? Someone, I don't know. I've kind of always been I think I get it from from maybe my my my family, my father. I think just kind of always been a good relationship guy. Yeah. I never wanted to burn a bridge and just. You never know when a relationship is going to pay off down the road. So I think of this always been very, inviting with people, especially in a business setting. So, yeah, it was, it was actually it was very it was, it was a boost of confidence when I did reach out to those contacts, and they had the confidence in me to say, all right. Yeah. Well, through some work, you know, that that was a, that told me a lot about myself that people are willing to take a bet on me, even though, you know, I'm not the best bet at that point. Yeah. Was it, like smooth sailing right from the beginning? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's still not a big it's a that's a tough industry, especially in the residential world. It's I call it the wild wild West you're dealing with. I'm not going to say, you know, you're just dealing with a different level of tradesmen in the residential world. You know, you got a guy who's a painter one day, he's a carpenter the next. So it's sort of so diverse. Oh, I mean, they're just or they just claim to be, you know, the markets, it's a tough market for for labor anyhow. So on the residential, you just kind of deal with the bottom of the barrel. I mean, okay, there's some great tradesmen in the residential, but for the most part, I feel like you're dealing with the guys who haven't graduated to commercial yet. So they're either brand new, they're maybe not as good as what they do, or they're they're taken on a trade that they don't actually know, but they're just filling in a filling, a void. If you will. Yeah. So dealing with that was extremely difficult to quality control my projects. And it just became too stressful. And then also dealing with homeowners I I'm I'm done. I'm, you know, husbands can't even please their wives. I'm not going to try to please people's lives. It's just extremely difficult. So they're nitpicking everything. Yeah, I deal with it, too. Like, we can't do, like, single residents either. Double the price, like private residence. Yeah. It's just I had such. I had a deal where I worked for this guy. He said, I'll never I'll never build something that people live in ever again. Yeah. I'm kind of, that's kind of what I'm sticking to. Yeah. How do you deal with the quality control? Like, is there, do you like systems for that, or, like, what's the. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm the I'm the quality control officer. So it really just comes down to hired good subcontractors and setting your standards and expectations with those guys as soon as they step foot on site. I think a lot of my problems in the past, and maybe a lot of businessmen in the past, is when you're just getting started, like you don't you don't want to be the asshole, but as soon as you do that one thing go, it just it just builds and builds and builds. So, you know, just better nip it in the bud. Even the bud immediately, man. And then yeah, that's that seems to have proven to work out better for me because I was very I was very nonchalant at first because I was just happy for people to show up to work for me. like just happy to have them there working. And, you know, that's how I'd let things slide. And it just it just never works out well for you. What has been the hardest thing you've had to deal with starting with or starting your business? Honestly, probably the just the learning curve of, you know, I, I thought I was pretty good at what I did when I was working for other people, but then when you go to do it for yourself, it's really tough when people aren't happy with a product that for, for me, like kills me. And then you're and then you're faced with, you know, you're okay, they're not happy with the product. But also their budget was was this. And it's like you're trying to find that balance. And I'd find myself burning myself out on jobs with my time overpaying guys or, you know, getting hit with change orders, not pass and one of the odor. And then at the end of the day, I'm just, you know, I'm not making any money. And I'm thinking, what am I doing this for? From making any money. So I think she was meeting people's expectations. And probably the lesson there is setting expectations for people. So what would Kurt to detail Kurt starting out the business suck if you could go back was like one of the biggest things you've learned. I think, just don't quit. I think that's what I tell a lot of businessmen. Yeah, I'm a good buddy, Steve McBee. He's got this saying that entrepreneurship is a game of endurance. And, you know, just don't quit. Keep learning lessons along the way. But, you know, you never know when you're going to strike gold. And I think that takes a long time. I think that's why a lot of people don't understand about entrepreneurial ship is they just, you know, they have a they have a business model and they got an action plan. And, you know, they hit it hard. And then after six months to a year, they're not seeing the results. And that's what it's easy to quit and trust. You, me and I have had so many times where I want to just pack up shop and be like, you know, fuck it, I'm done. I mean, construction's a tough enough industry, as you know, as most industries, construction is a very difficult industry. And then trying to be an entrepreneur in construction is just another level of it. yeah. We talk a lot about how, like, the whole game of entrepreneurship is like a mental mindset game. How do you deal with the, like adversity when you get to those adverse moments and keep yourself going when everything like around you is telling you to fucking quit? Yeah. I mean, I'd be remiss to say it didn't affect me. And I think, you know, you just have to internalize it. And, I've seen I've seen some guys that are so even keeled, some guys that I've studied and looked up to consider mentors, especially in this industry. And, you know, they've get hit with lawsuits or engineering issues, problems and, you know, these guys are just able to stay just above it and so even keeled and, you know, I often wonder like, does it hot does it not bother them. And and so I think I just look at people like that, I'm inspired by it and like go, you know, it has nothing too good to happen to like, a good workout kid. Okay. Yeah. And it's like it really comes down to your perspective. Like I look at it, you know, I got these guys from like, Latin America that work for me. Yeah, their hobby is pigs and shit, you know, working out on side. But, you know, I used to have, like, a couple college kids working for me, doing the exact same job, and they were fucking miserable our time. So doing the exact same job, like two different people have this different perspective on it. and it's like that perspective really does drive you reality. And it's like, oh, absolutely. I mean, happiness is a discipline. If you have the discipline to, like, keep your mind straight and like, not let that negativity get to you, like, then your world's going to be positive all the time. Absolutely. And it's just, you know, shit happens and shit's going to happen every day. And if you're just if you let your emotions, if you're just reactionary through it all the time and let your emotions spike because of it, you're probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur. So what in your personal life do you do to support, like the productivity? within your band? I gotta I've got to hey, I don't, you know, I don't drink or party as much as I used to. I got a, I got a real that into to one night a week. because I've always it just I'm getting older. Yeah. And if I'm drinking during the week, I go out on a Thursday and have a couple glasses of wine. I just I'm not fully functioning. And, you know, that next day. Yeah. so I think just cutting out my vices is a big one. Also, I'm never as sharp as I am when I'm physically fit. Like the more I am taking care of my body, the better mentally I am, the sharper I am, and the more apt I am to be able to deal with all of those issues that come up on a daily basis. And it's interesting that you say that like we just had this conversation, we, you know, two episodes ago, we had, George High Salon I was telling you about, and he has drinking, like, you know, 30 something years, and I don't drink either in the. Oh, you had a conversation? Yeah, we had a conversation about that. And like, how it does, you know, that was happening to me. I was partying in college and whatnot and like, trying to start the business, drinking. the hangovers turned from one day to three days. Yeah. Like when you're trying to produce at, like, a high level, it does start to weigh on you and it's not sustainable. Yeah. It's nice. I mean, some people can man I know. Yeah. Yeah I know guys who can, they can go and drink several nights a week and they're up at seven and functioning. But imagine how talented they'd be like without it. Yeah. That's what I think about. Like, you know, there's no way that it's not limiting them in some way. Yeah. I mean, maybe there's someone out there that gives them the extra boost, but yeah, I don't, I mean, I do think about that and and I still do. I mean, so I'm actually I'm opening up a, I'm going up a bar. I that's in health. Yeah. I decided I'm building it out right now. We will be we'll be ready to open in about two months. So that's my newest venture. Okay. Sweet. Is, it's called Ada. It's going to be up in Noda, and it's, coffee during the day. At night it is going to be a cocktail and jazz bar, a lounge and, but honestly, music. yeah. I just love live music. Yeah. So I love to travel. And really, what inspired this was it was just coincidental. I had a client reached out to me to help design and build the space. And then that same like after I met with of that next weekend, I was up in Brooklyn and we're at this really cool little lounge and it was a jazz lounge. And that's honestly what inspired most of the design of this lounge was, was from that that space where you're up in New York and, but hey, we're trying to bring like an experience to Charlotte. But where I was going with that is I honestly think that opening it will keep me more out of the nightlife. And just like on a Friday night, if someone's, you know, normally it's like I'm just yeah, I'm single. So sitting around it was like, oh, let's go get a drink. I'm like, all right, sure. Like I got nothing else to do. But I feel instead I'll just be like, now move out over the lounge and make sure that things are running smooth over there. So I'm, I'm hoping it'll pull the out of nightlife. What's it been like going of that venture from the developments or the construction side of things? just. Yeah, it's it's definitely scary, but it is. That is something that has been probably stressing me out the past couple months. how do you balance the time, like, between the two things and not like there was no balance? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, we were on a call. I got done last night working at six, got to my desk, and we jumped on the owner's call. We're on that call until 9 p.m. because we're, you know, we're really like, 60 days out. So we just hired a manager, and now we're going to start finding baristas and bartenders. And so it's just, you know, I don't know, you know, it's preneur there is the balance. Yeah. If you're doing this in between making calls and. Right. And so most people don't understand and even, you know, even the weekends like I, I tend to work Saturday mornings all the time because I got guys that want to work. So if I got guys work and I, you know, I like to work. So really Sundays are my only that's my day. Where don't call me. I don't pick up the phone. Like, if you hear me on a Sunday, it's because I want to talk to you. But yeah, I kind of have a no no cell phones and they're. I'm very hard to get a hold of. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you say like, I love to work. I, I think that, you know, I see so many people, they can't even do an eight hour day, like productively, but it's because they just fucking hate what they do. Yeah. You know, and it's like, that's like the key is like to be. And it seems like you're pretty passionate about what you're doing. I think it's just, I'm good at it and it makes me feel like a man. I think that is is probably why I've stuck in the construction industry for so long. Is I. I feel like it's a it's a skill that the world needs and that people can be inspired by and that we need more of it. And, you know, I, I, I remember go to college and you know, we all everybody was sold the dream of being like this white collar banker lawyer, you know, you know, all those white collar jobs and I don't know me just never really fit me, I just didn't it's not what I. It's just not what I ever felt passionate about. To me, that that that seemed like death. Like to just go in and punch a fucking clock for eight hours a day doing spreadsheets or some shit and nothing against white collar guys. I mean, they make a hell of a lot more money than I do, probably. But it just it just could never. Yeah. What is money if you're not happy? Yeah. It's going to have you just never really like you know got back years to it in. And so I think that is that's probably why I'm just stuck in blue collar industry is because it makes me feel like a man and makes me feel like I'm contributing to the world. And, you know, at the end of the day, I know I can step back in and offer a skill to the world that a lot of men don't. So what are the like? What is your plan for the company like? How are you trying to grow it? What's like. Yeah. So we the plan is, I'm working. I get my license in South Carolina and Tennessee next, and I need to systemize better. I will say I'm a good builder. I'm not a very good CEO. Like, I'm really not. So I'm trying to systemize better, putting everything down on paper so that my employees can know what I know for sure. That they can operate without me standing over their shoulder. And I think that's the toughest thing for me to write right now, is to relinquish control or have the confidence that, you know, I can bid on $1 million project and I can put a team on it, and I can kind of let it do its thing. Well, I can go business too, though. So that's been the most difficult thing for me. And maybe part of that is just the industry as a whole. It's hard to find good people. I'm not offering the biggest salaries from a superintendents like, you know, if you're good at what you do, if you're a good super, you know, if I were me, I probably wouldn't come work for me right now because I wouldn't I wouldn't pay me enough. but also I would because I worked for a guy that was kind of like me, and I didn't get paid as much, but I learned so much from him, you know, just working under him. So it's kind of a catch 22. I'm not at the point yet where I can I can offer these guys the biggest salaries and so on. How do you influence them to stay like, exactly. Yeah. And and then how how do you keep good people and you almost have to you almost got to train to where you are. You gotta find people that buy into the journey like I did, I think. Right. Yeah. Share your passion. Or you're like, you know, invested in growing the company. And I want to like, expand a little bit because that's really important. What you just said about like documenting everything. This is like probably one of the biggest things I've learned in the past three years through one of my mentors is like taking every bit of knowledge that's in your brain and like when your employee comes in, ask you that question, putting it in the operational manual and, you know, writing that down and documenting it because the second you document it as much of a pain as a pain in the ass as it is, you never have to answer that question again. Yeah. Like as that manual or whatever. That documentation gets bigger and bigger and more thorough. you are able to, like, delegate that or free your time up more and more in like obviously more questions are going to start arising. but then you just fucking put it in the manual. Yeah, yeah, I know, so true. And, I'm terrible about that. And that was always my that was always my struggle, even when I was working for other people. That's probably why I really, I was better in the field was because I'm just a very I'm a doer type of guy. And if something is done, I could go get it done. But I'm not great at like the documentation in the project management side of things so that as a business owner has been my biggest challenge is to force myself to sit at my desk and yeah, and get the back out stuff done. Yeah. And not just flee to the field when? Because because that's what that's I mean, that's what inspires me. Like I like being out there with the guys. I like seeing work being done. And I'm good. I'm good at running cuz I'm good at getting the work done. Like when I'm on site and feel like a shit. If something is done wrong, I can catch it right away and it's fixed. So you know we're saving time there. But also, you know, keeping guys moving and, you know, I'm able to kind of run the ship tighter. So that's that's really something I always said. I always joke my brother like, I'm just going to get the business big enough. And then you come around the freak and you could be the CEO, you know, because he he's wired just totally differently. He's he's just really good at all that stuff. And and maybe that's the secret. I'ma stick to what you're good at, right? My sister always tells me to stick to what you're good at. So this is a good segue. If you had $1 million of guilt free capital, how would you deploy it within the company? I would, I would definitely I would hire somebody to be the CEO and, start to systemize, systemize our operations better. and then I would deploy, I think I would deploy a lot of it to business development. Gotcha. I mean, you, you know, you can't construct anything if you don't go build it. Right? If you if you don't go create those relationships. yeah, probably a lot of it would be in sales, marketing, business development and then retaining a strong CEO. So like sales I think is the most important part of a business. But that's probably one of the main reasons people don't get into entrepreneurship is because it's scary. Yeah. What is your approach to sales? And I I've been I've been blessed. I think that everything up to date, I've only recently really started to market myself. So any work that I've retained to date has just been built through relationships. Yeah. And that has got me to a certain level of success then. But now I'm at the point where I've got to start bringing on attracting new clients that are outside of my, my circle. That can really help me expand to other cities. So, yeah, sales is is and that's something I'm thinking about even just bringing on like a girl and just put her on a, you know, either commission or some sort of salary. And she's, you know, she's taken out 3 or 4 commercial brokers a week or, you know, 2 or 3 new clients a week or so and potential new clients just to kind of help drive that. We talked about before we got on the show. You're on like a reality show before you did this. How does that affect, like, does that help you at the business? Or, you know, I, I think it maybe initially had maybe an initial push. You helped me get some business. Has it helped me relationship was I tell you that. Why not. I think it's hard for women to to try to date a guy who was on a, on a reality show on a dating show. It's. You'd think that would be the opposite. Yeah. I just don't think that they do. Is seriously. No. yeah. Yeah, I see, like, they'd be all over that. I mean, they're they're all over for about ten minutes and that. But not the quality ones. Yeah. Yeah. so yeah, my love life, or at least relationship wise, it's been hard for me to find like a serious, serious partner or ladies a you heard it here first. so another question I like to ask is, how do you define success? Like, if you look around at your life like you're in this moment, and you look around like, and you see, what are you like, okay, I made it. I think success is defined by freedom. And however you you define that. But but for me, the freedom to wake up and do what I want to do every day and not be. And I'm not I'm not even there yet. I'm, you know, I'm not I'm not where I want to be to a level of I dictate my entire life because I'm still I am still driven by finances. You know, I got to keep keep the ball moving, keep the ship afloat. So I'm not really even free financially yet, but I at least do have the freedom to wake up and do whatever I want to do every day. I've got the freedom to travel. I've got the freedom to live the life that that I want to live right now. so yeah, I think just freedom in it. However you want to find that freedom to live your life the way you want to live it, and have nobody dictate how you should live it, the hours you should work. And, you know, I think that's a ton of people get caught up with this. You got to wake up at 5 a.m. and you got to like, you got to stick to this regimen. You guys took the in. This is your this is your your path to success and have never bought into that. I think the success can come in so many different ways. I mean, some people or night owls, they get their shit done at night. Some people, some people need that that structure get done in the morning. I just would tell people, just find what works for you and and stick with it, hold yourself accountable. But what do you think are the non-negotiables that, like, everyone needs, non-negotiables? I mean, you gotta have you gotta have some confidence in yourself, right? You got it. Nobody else is going to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself. So, you know, if and people can read that all over you when you go shake their hands. So think you got it. You got to believe your own, your own bullshit. If you've got a dream, you know, believe in that dream and other people will be attracted to that. Yeah. Like, how do you motivate yourself? You know, that's that's tough at times. Yeah. Like how do you find motivation. Other people. Other people. Yeah. Yeah for sure. I'd say I'm definitely driven by my peers. And you know, I see some guys in study, some guys that I, you know, that might make it look so easy. And it it keeps me accountable to myself, you know, and it's all those moments where you get burnt out and you don't want to do shit. You would be lazy. And, I think that's what keeps me going. And seeing other young guys out there, out there making it. So a couple more questions before we wrap up. What I like to ask is, what is the worst situation you've ever been in as an entrepreneur? like Vegas. Oh shit. Moment as an entrepreneur. So I had I had, yeah, I got a lot of credit for the company, like. Yeah, this is God. this was this was this year and it it really. So I, you know, I had a couple projects going on. Everybody was late on, and so. And I'm talking a couple hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. Everybody's late on pain, so I had to pull a pretty big chunk. my credit line out, and everybody's laid on paying. I was waiting on a couple of checks. The credit line, it was only. It was only for a year. So I guess the year had come up for a new it. So they went and debited debit in my account for the entire amount that I had poured. So we're talking over six figures, debit my account and I go check my account. And I had no money. Shit. Yeah. And I was that was a no shit moment. I called them and they're like, oh, that was a mistake. We were like, because I told him to. I was like, hey, this is roll this. And then another year. And so it was just an automation mistake and they're like, okay, I'm sorry. We'll back it out. so yeah, that was probably my biggest, like, oh shit, as an entrepreneur. And it taught me a tough lesson on cash flow. Yeah. And, you know, and that's all I see. That's what I gotta do tonight is get all my payouts out, on time, because cash flow can just kill you. Yeah. And then also starting to penalize people when they pay late. You know, I've been such a nice guy with people, but that that was one of those oh shit moments, because all it did was put me in jeopardy of losing, you know something? I'd worked for three years to build for a year. because. Because everybody was paying late. And, I mean, I'm talking the I was owed. Oh, yeah. And I was up to, like $400,000 in receivables. And almost every client was late at one point. Yeah, we were just oh, probably second episode. We had this guy, Rod Robertson on. We weren't even recording it at the time. We were just doing on The Voice podcast. But, he's an investment banker, the M&A guy. And he said, like, right now, the biggest reason businesses fail is because of cash. And you could have a company with $100 million in receivables. Yeah, like a business. But if you can hit that fucking payroll. Yeah, yeah. And then God, I mean, they got like a bank with a small bank and they've been, they've very good with me that. And that's one thing that I was able to this year getting a bank that would extend to me favorable credit terms, large credit terms to where I can draw on, you know, I can I can carry 30 days, I can pull six figures if I need to to keep things go. And that was that was a big step for me because prior to that, you know, I didn't have enough. It just wasn't good enough cash flow to to take that leap and to take on take on a half$1 million project, take on $1 million project and keep, keep the ball rolling. Because, you know, the funny thing with, with blue car business, like, if you're not paying you guys, you're not in business. So if you're not paid your subcontractors, all right, if you mean they're not coming back to work for you, if I pay my employees, they're not showing up. So it, what was the process like finding a good bank? It's a small bank. Yeah. Small bank. Yeah. Because, like, I've gone to some big banks and obviously, like, they're, Don't give a shit about you. Yeah, I know they don't give a shit. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you fix, like, find, like, a good bank that will. Yeah. So my brother, actually, he, he golfs with, he golf with one of the, I think he was, like, the president of the branch. Now they Greenville or something. And I told him that I was want to switch to a smaller bank and, like, get some good credit terms. I did. I could really scale the business. And, yeah, he'd like me and took me on right away. And then now I've got we're opening up the account for the lounge. So we're banking the account for the lounge. They are going to run all of our, over, what do they call them? You know, sell your transactions, books. Yeah. we'd, like, I forget the, the term for it, but the all of our sales, all of our sales are going to run through them. They're out. They're going to have merchant services. Okay. Got cigaret, all of our merchant services through them. and then I've got another, I just opened up another account with a buddy. I've got some merch that I've been working on, and, opened up another account there, and then I've got, I got a for the guy there and another buddy we opened up. we provide shipping a data solutions for people. So, you know, those container tunnels you see around town. So, like, couple of those of ours. Container tunnels. Yeah, yeah, they're, they're protective walkway tunnels for, like, high rise projects. have you been on the light rail? You see those shipping containers, the windows, and, there's a big, long tunnel. so we started just kind of do that. How do you get into that, man? I had a buddy who's a project manager for a job, and he. So I was like, oh, sure is. We started an account and got the contract on that. And, and now we're actually looking at building a charter school, doing the damn shipping container. Charter school. That's that. So I'm just, I'm an opportunist. Yeah. So. But, yeah, it's funny. I was a beggar that day, and I've got four different, four different business accounts with them. You like the adrenaline? Yeah. Yeah. I, like chasing cars, man. Yeah. Yeah, I like the pain. Another, question I always ask is, is there one person that, once you have made it, you would say, I told you so too? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a very not I don't think I'm a very, not a spiteful, resentful type person. So, you know, I don't think so. I think I kind of already had that that, moment, the guy I used to work for, who I consider myself, you know, a girl. I consider him almost a mentor. We, This was back when I was building townhomes. we had a townhome deal that would sour the project manager over me. ended up firing me, and it really, I didn't even think I, like, worked for the p m. I thought I was working for the owner of the company. Really? Like that was who? My relationship. The company was, and. And it was all over a client, again, keeping keeping clients happy. It was over some complaints from a client, and, and we had, he called me about, you know, a couple months ago, it was like, hey, I saw an article in the paper that you're building this restaurant up in Noda or whatever. He's like, I get lunch, and I think that was kind of my, like, like, yeah, dude, like I told you. I told you so. you know, I'd be you someday. That's kind of kind of what I'm trying to be, I think. So he's a that feels good. Yeah. Yeah, he's he himself is. I always looked up to him. He is a very, just, very industrious dude. He was a superintendent then started GC firm blue that GC firm up. Then he got into development and now he has a bunch of restaurants. He's a big landowner. He's just like he's kind of got that same energy of, of like the dog chasing cars. Like he's just always getting his hands and things that he knows nothing about. Right? And he somehow turns him into a success. So my last question was what advice, final advice do you have for entrepreneurs? Don't quit. I think that's it. Entrepreneurship is a game of endurance. Don't quit. And I'm not going to say every business idea is a good business idea. I mean, I'm sure you've had plenty of you haven't pursued, but if you are going to put something in motion and see it through and that was that has been the biggest lesson for me in this endeavor, especially in construction, is sticking it out and seeing it through. So I think early on in my life I was I'd quit on anything if it got too tough. But I, you know, if I quit and that and I'd move on because I think I was always intelligent enough to to figure it out. Right. but that that is what kills people. Just don't quit. Stick it out. You never know how close you are to start and go. Yeah, you can't fail until you quit, right? People. People don't fail. They quit. Yeah, yeah. so what if people want to hit you up? What? You know, anything you want to plug or, where can I find you? Yeah. So what social is, sir? Underscore. Kurt, my construction company is called Soco Group. Find us. you can just Google server group. Charlotte, we should pop up our cocktail lounge, which we're opening up here in July. It was called Ada Coffee and Cocktails. It will be in the Noda area. and then the, merch area. And I've got coming out. We just placed our first order of hats. It's called Black Flag Co, and, we'll have more on that coming soon to be on the lookout for that with some really cool merch on the way, I well, I appreciate you coming on. Oh, awesome. Thanks, Jack. Well, that concludes episode 11 of Shaken Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. You can find me on Instagram at Blue Collar Kid that is Blue Collar KEHD. If you have any guests that you want to recommend or questions that you want asked, don't hesitate to reach out. And other than that, tune in next time for some more interesting guests and conversations. Thanks, guys. So.