Ep 25: Lessons Learned - Jack Moran

In this week's episode of Shakin' Hands, host Jack Moran sits alone to share his entrepreneurial journey, a journey marked by adaptability. From his early ventures like facing the challenges of launching a large-scale music festival in college to his current business Ecological Improvements, an erosion control business, he has shown the ability to pivot and change course when necessary. He reflects on key lessons learned from failure, discovering business opportunities in unexpected places, and the importance of adapting his strategies. The episode highlights the power of persistence, inspiring and motivating the audience to keep pushing forward despite challenges.

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Host: Jack Moran
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Transcript

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What's up guys? Welcome to episode 25 of Shakin’ Hands. I'm your host, Jack Moran. We're going gonna do things a little bit differently today. We're going gonna talk a little bit about my story and my journey in entrepreneurship and kind of give you guys, some insight on what it took to get to where I'm at today. Just to get started, like I think deep down inside, I was always kind of an entrepreneur. When I was a little kid, I can remember being like 7 or 8 years old with my dad, like down by the train station and starting up lemonade stands, you know, pitching to people to buy lemonade from us. And, you know, that was kind of my earliest memory of, like, having my own business. And then throughout middle school, in high school, if there was a snowstorm up in Massachusetts, me and my buddies would be out shoveling people's cars out trying to get some extra money that in the summertime we'd be spending like vacations over in Martha's Vineyard. And I had a little Zodiac rubber Zodiac, and I would run people out to their boats and work off tips or run ice out to people's boats. And so I was always kind of trying to figure out, like, you know, how to make some extra money, especially when I was a little kid and couldn't get a job. And then in college was when I really try to put together my first business venture. we try to start a music festival in Cape Cod. There wasn't like any big festivals and we, you know, tried to find the fairground space and like, put the artists and put together this big event. And so that was kind of like my first venture, like trying to figure out how to start a legitimate business and raise money. I think we needed, like, you know, a little over $1 million to get the entire festival going. so I ran into some difficulties trying to raise that money as an 18 year old in college, and I built my first business plan. I had a partner. We had some senior mentorship, and we were going around trying to like, sling this idea. Now, I learned a lot from that lesson. The biggest thing was like, I didn't need all of that money. Like that was how much our expenses would have been for the event to start the event. And I thought that I needed all that money upfront to put the event together. But looking back, I probably could have made that deal happen with very little capital by just like, you know, building marketing materials and starting to sell tickets like pre-construction or pre, you know, in real estate it would be called pre-construction. But before the event was even a thing, we could have raised money through selling tickets to the event and then use that capital to make the event happen. And people would say, well, what if the event doesn't happen? And then you just give the people their money, money back? So if I could go back, that's how I would have made that deal happen. And I still to this day, like I wish that we, we got that going because it was, it looked, at least on paper, like it would be really profitable, but so yeah, then I'm like, going through college and externally, like, everyone's kind of telling you, like, you got to get a job. Like you can't just, like, start your own business. Like you need to learn first. And so you have like, all these like, external limitations being instilled in you by other people. And so I'm going down that path. I know deep down inside, like I want to be an entrepreneur, but kind of listening to what, like these older people are telling me saying, you know, maybe they are right. Maybe this is crazy to think that I can start my own business. And I just failed with the music festival after working on that for over a year. And so I start looking into like job careers or whatever job paths. And people ask like how I got started so I didn't jump fully into it. But the background of like where I started was I was taking this class in college and it was an environmental policy course, and it was honestly, like not really super interesting to me. And I wasn't the best student in college. But we would talk about like regulations for, environmentalism in the federal government. And it was like a pretty boring class for me. So to be fully transparent, like, I would just sleep through the class in the back of class and I don't know if it was divine intervention or what, or fate, but I literally woke up, like in the middle of a nap in class. And the professor who was like, you know, one of the most profound influences I've had in my life was talking about how next to our school, which I went to Mass Maritime, in Cape Cod, there was a $15 million contract open to do a marsh restoration on August Beach. And his point was that there, although this contract had been open for like many years, there was nobody that had taken the contract. And I'm like raising my hand, asking questions like a light bulb goes off in my head. I'm like, you know what? What do you mean, Marsh? Restoration? Like what's required? He's like, well, it's just like plantings, like you're restoring the marsh with, you know, plants like Spartan, all turtle flora. And I'm, like, planting $15 million. I mean, I don't know how big this is, but I could get 5 or 10 of my buddies together, pay them, like, a couple thousand bucks. You know, we all need money and secure a $15 million contract. Like, the wheels really started turning in my head in his point that he was trying to make was like, erosion is this massive industry that's becoming a bigger and bigger problem. But there aren't many companies that are doing it. And because it's growing, we should get jobs with the few companies that are doing it. because it's such a big opportunity. So my head wasn't thinking like that at all. My head was thinking like, how do I, you know, start my own business and capitalize on this opportunity? So I ended up staying after class with him and asking him, like, what would prevent me from securing that contract or starting my own company? And he's like, really nothing. The major that you have qualifies you entirely to do this, but there's like a lot of regulations that you get to learn and like you can't just jump into it. There's a lot more to this. So I started getting like a second hand education from him. And a senior year, our junior year into senior year. And we started like basically hashing out this business. So he'd give me like regulations. I'd start reading through the Clean Water Act, learning more about the industry. Then I'd go back to him, and I was trying to piece together like how I would start this business. So, the lesson that I'll say from that is like, it's not going to be your first model that's successful. I knew that there was an opportunity. I recognized this opportunity, but it took me 5 or 6 different tries to understand what how I was going to capitalize on this opportunity. So it started like, okay, there's all these permits that are required to do this kind of restoration work, especially if you're a resident dealing with erosion control. So that was the first thing I learned about was like the permitting process for doing this kind of work. So that was going to be the business was that I would be a consultant writing permits for these jobs, which paid pretty good money. You know, I would have made six figures a year, writing these permits. And I found like a couple little contracts. People let me do it for them on like a small basis to learn my way through it. But what I figured out was like, it was taking me all this time studying and like, so much training and input to get myself to a point where I could write these permits. So in my head I'm like, okay, how do I get to the millions in this model, you know, how do I make the big money? I'm not, you know, focusing small picture on a hundred grand a year. You know, I wanted to make really big money, and it just didn't make sense to me how I would scale up that business model if I had to train. And each person that was doing this service would have to have this level of knowledge, because I knew the input I was putting into it, and I thought it would be really difficult and time consuming to get a team that could do what I was doing. So it was didn't make sense how to replace myself. So pretty quickly I abandoned that model and which I learned a lot through it, which took me to the next venture, the next piece, and it was really like it was meant to be. Like I learned what I needed to through pursuing that venture, but it wasn't like what was going to it wasn't the end all be all. So from that point, I realized pursuing that venture, that to do these like Marsh restorations, it required these plants called smart alternate flora. And we were going out trying to figure out like what our expenses would be to do one of these restorations, and we couldn't even find a place that provided the plants that that were required to do these restorations. So that was like second moment was like, there's a massive opportunity to grow these these marsh restoration plants, these seagrasses. And it was very difficult. The reason why nurseries weren't growing them was because Sparta alterna Flora, a marsh restoration plant, are in a title area. So they to grow, where they grow and their natural environment half the day they're out of water and the other half of the day they're submerged in saltwater. So not only do they have these like tidal cycles that they're used to, it's salt water. So emulating that in a nursery environment was difficult for these like nurseries that were doing other things because they had to create these like aquaponic ebb and flow systems that were emulating the tide, that were utilizing saltwater, which is really corrosive to any machinery. So it was like super difficult process. But there was this huge opportunity and we started talking to some of these like few restoration companies, and they were like, if you guys can grow this stuff, we'll buy everything that you have. So we thought that there was like a big opportunity. And I ended up like partnering up with one of my buddies and trying to throw this deal together. so we started learning about that and like, figuring out how we could start servicing this industry. So this is like end of senior year in college, and I'm still getting that, like external influence of like, what are you going to do after college? Like you need to get a job you don't have. Like I don't come from a family with a lot of money. And I remember like, my parents were going through kind of a hard time at that point in time. And I was about to graduate college, and my dad was basically like, you know, when you get done, you can sleep on the couch, like if you want. But like, I remember he had to downsize and move into like a different house, just like expenses were tight. And he had like, we went from a two bedroom to a one bedroom apartment that he had. And he was like, yeah, I mean, you could shack it up on the couch, but like, that's all we can afford right now. so I had to start, like, figuring out like what I was going to do after college. So I was getting that external influence. And so I'm like, kind of trying to put together this, like, entrepreneurial deal, but at the same time, realistically thinking in my head like there are some serious like there are some hard to swallow pills that I got to deal with. So then I, I was looking at a couple of jobs within my major, and I studied environmental science, but I just I didn't see the money. And like, I think super big picture. I'm like, if I'm going to put in the time anyway, like I want it to yield a lot. So I'm like, not trying to put in 80 hours a week to make 4050 grand. Like it just doesn't make sense to me. It's like always been kind of work smarter, not harder. So I'm like, there is some opportunity out there where I can have a good quality of life and make a bunch of money to support myself, but I just got to figure out how to do it, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to figure that out. So I was kind of going down that path and trying to figure out how to build this deal or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And at that point in time, my dad started chilling with this guy down in Cape Cod. His name's Chris Cavallaro. He's like, really? You know, top financial advisor in Massachusetts, super successful. I remember my dad would be like posting pictures on Facebook out on these like Million Dollar Center consoles. And I'm like, dude, who is this guy? And, it was funny, like, yeah, I'm pretty close to the guy now. But my dad was like, he doesn't really like kids out on his boat. I'm like, dude, introduce me to this guy. Like, I want to meet him. He's like, yeah, he's not really like about having high school or college kids out on his boat. Like, I don't know. And I kept like pepper in my dad, like, just get me on this, get me in front of this guy, get me in front of this guy. And so eventually my dad called me. He's like, hey, we're going to go over to Martha's Vineyard. Like, you want to come out on the boat. So I'm like, fuck yeah. I go out with the guy and this is like, right when I'm about to graduate. So I'm looking for jobs. And this here's this guy that's like, super successful, like, in my eyes. Like what I'm striving to be. He's got one of the top houses in Cape Cod. Looks like he's living the dream. So we're on the boat all day and like, you know, kind of like, you know, just building a relationship with him. And so I start asking him questions like, what do you do for work, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I'm a financial advisor. I'm like, I'm looking for jobs. Like after college, I'll come work for you. And he like laughs. He's like, well, you're an environmental science. major. Like, what do you know about financial advising? I'm like, well, I can learn anything like being very and you know, that's a lesson is like the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Like I wasn't leaving him alone. I was, like, determined to get a job and learn from this guy. And he's like, well, it's not really what you think, like, to be successful in this business, you have to do a lot of cold calling, a lot of cold outreach to get more clients. That's the only way you're going to make real money. I'm like, I can do that. And he laughed. He's like, okay, like make a cold call. Like put me on the spot right there. So on his boat, I like I'm like, bling bling. Reach out to him in like he picks up the phone and we role play a cold call. And I know nothing about financial advising. I'm like, hey, I just wanted to call you about the markets. And like, I have no clue what I'm talking about. And he's like, yeah, I'm not really interested. But I'm like, I gotta fucking like perform with this guy. So I keep peppering him with the questions and I didn't even realize that I was doing it, but I was getting over the objections that he was putting in front of me. And he's like, yeah, not interested, and hangs up on me. And he just laughs. And I'm like, well, how did I do? And he's like, that was terrible. Like, you know nothing about financial advising. So I was like a little bit defeated or whatever. But I'm like, okay, this isn't gonna be the last time I see this guy. And I think I've made like a good, good impact on him. And I think I stayed after with him and cleaned his whole boat to try to like, you know, solidify the relationship anyway, like 4 or 5 days goes by. My dad calls me and he's like, hey, Chris Cavallaro just reached out to me like, he wants you to work for him. He wants to get on a call with you. So he gave me a call and he's like, yeah, I was really impressed by like, you know what you did? And like, the fact that you were willing to do that and you got over the objections and I'm going to bring you into the business, like not going to really pay you a lot, but I'm going to, like, teach you what I do. And in my head, I was thinking like, this is not aligned with the kind of businesses that I want to enter, but these are super high net worth individuals. I'm going to understand how money moves in this world. And like, you know, again, my family wasn't really good with their finances. And so I wasn't getting that experience from them. So I wanted to get in front of people that had been successful in their lives and see, like, what were the factors that made them successful. I kind of put like the nursery idea on the back burner and went down this path. And I'm seeing like this guy who's like super successful. And my thought is like, if I just follow this guy's path, like, I'm going to become rich and like, that's like, that's the path. And which I found out later is not not the way to go about things. So I really like, knew that I needed to learn. I wasn't making any money and I wasn't chasing a salary. I wanted to do sales and make commissions and like, figure out how to make my own money. I still have that entrepreneurial mindset and I knew that I need to to learn sales. So I always like deep down inside, like I remember my dad and my family and everyone always telling me, like, you're such a salesman, you're such a salesman. But I didn't know the, like actual intricacies of sales. So we're in this, like, big office when I start working for the company. And Chris, the advisor that I got the job from and I was expecting a mentorship from, he's like on the way out, like he's making passive income. He'd come into the office like once every 2 or 3 weeks, and I was just doing like administrative tasks for him. So I'm like, I got to learn this shit or I'm never going to make money. And his secretary was just like offloading her work to me, doing administrative bullshit. Like, I can't even get my homework done in college, let alone like filling out these insurance applications and literally want to kill myself. So I'm like, I got to figure out so quick how to start making an impact in this office so I can make some real money. So basically like seeked out the top advisor in the office because there's a bunch of individual offices within this office place. And I would like find him in between meetings. And I would go to his secretary and be like, what are, you know, what's John's schedule today? Where is free times? And I would catch him in between meetings cause he was a super busy guy. And I'd be like, you know, how do I find more clients? Or like, how do I make money? And he'd give me little tidbits and I would just keep coming back to him over and over and over again, but still, like, wasn't getting that sales experience, but like kind of figuring out, like how to wheel and deal in the the job world or in the work world outside of college. And this, I promise, is getting somewhere. But I, I one day Chris like it was like a long week and Chris was like, I forgot this application. I have a client meeting outside of Boston with this guy. I need you to bring this application after work. I think it was like a Friday. I'd like plan to go home at like five, and I had to drive way out of the way to, like, bring him this application. So I drive down, I give him the packet and he's like, yeah, I really appreciate you. Like bringing me this. Like, I'll bring you to my country club. And he had this nice gym. I'm just outside of Boston. So we go to the jam and he like lets me I'm like a spa day and like chill out at the gym for the rest of the day and we hit the pool or whatever. And, that was kind of like my reward for doing the extra work. And afterwards we went out to grab dinner and he sat me down. He's like, you know, I appreciate what you've been doing. And like, you've been really flexible. Like, I know you're not making a ton of money. And I was like, really struggling. At the time I was living with my grandmother. I was driving two hours to work, and from work in bumper to bumper traffic, didn't have enough money to make pay rent like I was eating, like microwavable dinners was not in a great situation in my grandparents house. It was just like felt like everything was working against me. But I was really determined to get ahead. And so he's like, you know, I appreciate I know you're not making a ton of money, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, but my question to you is like, you have this environmental science background, which seems like a big booming industry, like, why do you want to be a financial advisor? Why are you working for me as a financial advisor? And I was just like to be fully transparent with you, Chris, I have zero interest in being a financial advisor. I just like wanted to learn from you, like how you got to be successful and like, figure out how the money moves and like, you know, I haven't figured out yet, like what I'm going to do. And he's like, okay. Like he kind of laughed. He's like, then what are you trying to do? And I was like, to be honest, like, I have like a couple of business ventures in mind that I've tried to I've been trying to put together, but I haven't figured out yet, like how to be successful with them. And he's like, well, what are the business ventures? And I start pitching him the nursery idea that I've been working at, like working on six months prior to that for, you know, over a year while I was still in college. And he's like, I have that problem and one of my properties and this is like super interesting, like this is something that I would invest in. And so I perked up and I start getting into sales mode and like telling him how big the opportunity is. He's like, listen, like put together a pitch deck for me. And and I'd never heard that term before. And he's like, let's talk about this next week. So all weekend I'm like on the computer. Like putting together a little presentation, no clue what I was doing, but just put together like a little teaser on what the opportunity was and brought it into a Monday. Like, I was like super proud to bring it into him. And I remember him just like opening up the folder and basically closing it down. And like, he didn't really give a shit about the pitch deck. He just wanted to see if I would do it. He was gauging like how committed I was to this. So he says to me, like, okay, like I have an M&A guy, mergers and acquisitions guy who evaluates businesses for me before I invest in them. I want to introduce you to them. So we set up a meeting to go down to Cape Cod, to his house, and he introduces me to this guy, Rod Robertson, who's the, president of Briggs Capital and Investment Bank. Like one of the most profound entrepreneurs I've ever met, one of my biggest mentors, and sits me down with him. And he's like, tell him about the business. So Rod's super, super cold guy. Like he's not going to sugarcoat anything. So I start pitching the business to him and he stops me and he's like, just stop there. Like, that's the worst fucking pitch I've ever heard in my life. And I'm just like, put back in my seat. He's like, you're so disorganized. I have no clue what the fuck you're talking about. And so he starts asking me questions. Now he's leading the conversation and asking me about the business, and we get to the end of it. And he's like, yeah, you got a lot of, like, work to do and a lot of polishing up to do. But he's like, I actually think the business will work. And he's like, Chris, this would be a good thing for you to invest in. And he's like, Jack, like, I'll walk you through, like how to do it. So now at this point, my attention shifts from, like, the job, and now I'm back in this, like chasing this venture. And now I have these, like, money guys that are helping me, figure it out. So I would get up with him, like, once a week with rod, and he would tell me, like, what I needed to do to get the business started. So he walk me through how to build the financial plan and how to be like the financial summary to raise money and the business plan and figure out in the beginning for these guys, for a guy like rod, when you don't have it, when you have a business that you're trying to start, you want to make sure that it works on paper first. So that was the first exercise that we went through was like figuring out what the expenses would be of the company and then what the revenue would be of the company. And obviously you don't know 100%, but you want to put that model together first to see is there even a chance that this will work and this was like a super valuable lesson for me, because this was a business that doesn't exist up until this point. So it's like, how do you figure out the expenses for a business that doesn't exist? So I'm online researching, like, what is it going to require to start this business? And you have to really, like, use your imagination and start visualizing what's going to be required for this business. And it's like no one's telling you there is no information online. So you have to use your imagination to start, like conceptualize what's going to be required for this business. So each thought kind of leads to another thing. And it was like, okay, we're going to need the trees to grow the plants out of. And then how much soil is it going to require? How much light, what's the energy that's going to be required from that light? How much water? What are the nutrients that go into growing this type of plant. And each thing was kind of leading to like new expenses and were lighting all these expenses. And then once you figure out the expense, you got to figure out how much it costs. So I would be calling like nurseries to say, like, you know, how many, how much dirt do you guys require to grow X amount of plants? And they'd be like, you know, we don't give that information out. This is how I put the I remember one guy saying like, this is how I put food on the table for my family. Like, I'm not telling you that. So I had to get creative in, like I would call as a client and figure out, like, you know, trying to figure out their expenses. And we got to a point where we had like a shell model and we understood like 80 or 90% of the expenses of the business. And so I end up like there's probably like 9 or 10 other things that I need to understand what their prices are in order to put them into the model. And I find this conference down in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where the few companies in the industry that were doing that would meet at the summit called the Spa conference, the American Shoreline Beach Preservation Association conference to, like, go over erosion control and like the methods and different contractors would come in. So I was like, this is the perfect place. I'm going to meet all the people that are already doing this. So go back to Chris and Rod. Like I found this conference. I think I got to go down to this. Like at this point I have no money. So I'm like trying to pitch to them to like pay for the trip. And I think rod looking back now, was like in his head like, yeah, I'll pay for him to go down this and he's going to get his ass handed to him. And then like, this will all be done in over and it'll be a good lesson that he'll learn and he'll go back to working. And in my head I'm like so determined to get this done. So we're on different pages. But he pays for the trip was like a couple thousand dollars. We get these nasty hotels like gross hotels. I remember there's cockroaches climbing around in the hotel, and, I buy I buy suits and I go with my buddy who was working with at the time. He's like one of my best friends. He was helping me out with the business at the time. We buy suits and we build these business cards. It was called CCN, Coastal Erosion Control and Nursery and we went down talking like we already had this company and we had these massive private equity firms that were helping us build this business. So fly down to this conference would show up in our suits and we're like at the conference talking about like how we have all this money backing us and we have this company we're handing out our business cards, like acting like executives. And in two days, like we ran this fucking conference, we had met every single person there. We, you know, built our pitches, were wheeling and dealing, trying to figure out like meeting different nurseries that were already doing it, getting the information from them, like everything felt like it was coming together. And we do like a debrief with rod at the end of the day and tell him what we figured out at the conference. And rod was completely blown away by like the strategy that we were we were starting to conceptualize. And he was like, okay, like I was expecting these kids to just go down there and like, get there again, get their asses handed to them. But they're actually like drumming up some business. So his approval was like further motivating us. And we would, you know, he'd show us to do the meeting meetings at the end of the day and do the outline and like, basically like communicating the strategy to, you know, first shareholder or board member, which was rod. So now we've got the like full model. We did the conference. I met like a lot of really good contacts in the industry, was starting to figure out like and starting to get some like real assurance that this is like a legitimate opportunity that that I can pursue. So we come back to the States, we finish up the model and Rod's like, you, we've got the model done. Now we're going to go out and raise money. And I think it was like $2.5 million that we had to raise. Up until this point in time, I'd been kind of bullshitting to everyone like that. I knew how to put together a nursery, and I understood every bit of this business, and I was just in sales mode to keep it going. But now we're like, legitimately going to raise this money. And I'm like, I'm about to like, run this business. It's going to have fucking 50 employees. I have no fucking clue how to do this shit. Like what's going to happen when I get off, you know, a couple million dollars of someone's money and I have no clue what to do. And so I started getting scared, and I start kind of like Dodge and Rod a little bit, like, I'm getting cold feet for, like a month. He's like, yeah, we're gonna raise this money, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, still trying to make a decision on like, what I'm going to do and kind of grace of God. Covid hits and derails everything. And rod calls me. He's like, this is not the like. Unfortunately, like J.R. like nobody's investing money right now because of the instability. Like, like you got to take a break. It kind of derails everything. But it was like a kind of a relief for me because I was getting super scared about taking on, like, someone, someone else's money. So kind of like, right before, during all this, I got I quit working for Chris because I literally had no money. And I went down and I wasn't learning anything, you know, because he was always out of the office. I was just doing administrative tasks, traveling two hours back and forth to work like I was going out in Boston. I would get drunk with my buddies like 3 or 4 days a week. I was driving into work, hung over. At one point I fell asleep in the at the wheel and crashed into a car behind like in front of me. Thank God there was no damage because that would have derailed me. I didn't have any money to pay for any damage. Luckily the lady let me go, but my life was like pretty much in shambles. I remember at that point in time it's like New Year. I want to say of like 2020 had to about 2019 or 2020 New Year's and my New Year's resolution was that I was going to quit smoking weed and quit drinking. And I had this success that was happening with the entrepreneurship I was seeing, like my dreams kind of like come into fruition. But I would always like this adversity would get thrown in front of me, and I couldn't figure out, like how to get through it and like how to start yielding and how to start supporting the lifestyle that I wanted. And things were like at this point, I was like, honestly pretty depressed and it felt like things weren't going my way, but it felt like there were all these opportunities right in front of me, and I had all this potential, but I couldn't figure out how to capitalize on it. In deep down inside, I was very aware of what I needed to do in order to capitalize on these opportunities. It was like life in the universe was giving me the exact tools and the answers, but I was ignoring them and I would lie to myself and tell myself like, there's another way to get around it. Although, like every bit of my consciousness knew that I needed to quit drinking and I needed to quit smoking weed because it was really holding me back from meeting my full potential. So my New Year's resolution was that I would quit smoking and quit drinking, start putting this business together. New year's hits. I quit drinking like 3 or 4 days goes by and the anxiety of like, I'd been smoking weed for, you know, ten years. and the anxiety of not being able to smoke, like, got to me and I start smoking again. So probably like 2 or 3 months goes by and I was good about not drinking. I had and drank it all, but I kept smoking weed and for me it was the universe was still telling me like weed is the bigger issue. If you just quit smoking weed, all your dreams are going to come true. It was like screaming in my head that that was the answer, but I just couldn't do it. And I remember every day, like at least once or twice a week I would tell myself, like, after work, today is the last day I'm going to quit smoking weed. So I would, I would smoke, get high, and I'd throw away all my weed stuff, and then 2 or 3 hours would go by and I wouldn't be high anymore, and the anxiety would build. And then I'd go out and I'd buy more stuff, and I didn't have any money at this time. Again, I wasn't making any money, and it was expensive to go to the dispensary and spend $100 on a weed vape. So this like so then like it became like, okay, I want to quit, but I wouldn't be able to throw away my stuff because I knew in the back of my head, 24 hours from now, I'm going to want to smoke again, and then I'm going to have to just go buy this shit again. So I'm like wasting money. So at this point, I'm getting like, I'm like really depressed right now. I was not in a good mental space. I was still working for Chris and I backtracked a little bit, but I was still working for Chris. I had taken on a second job plowing in the winter, so I would go to Chris's office from 9 to 5, that I'd have like 2 or 3 hours, and then I would plow. If there was a snowstorm from like 8:00 at night to 4 or 5in the morning, and then I would go to Chris's office. So Ludi wasn't sleeping. I think I was like, not just I was doing drugs, like I was really fucking doing cocaine and shit, trying to stay awake. And like, that was like really wearing on me. And I was in this party lifestyle. So in the middle of like, not sleeping, doing all this work and partying and doing drugs, like it was really weighing on me. And so I think this is like probably 2 or 3 months after New Year's. I was like at a head, like it felt like my world was imploding in on me. And I was like, I'm going to quit smoking. Like I'm quitting smoking weed today. And so I smoked on the way to, work and go into the office. And I'm like, after today, after the workday, like, I'm not going to smoke again. And I remember the workday ending. I'm like, now, not high anymore. And for the past like five years, I'm high 24 seven when I'm working doing anything, I'm smoking this vape. So like the withdrawal start happening immediately and I get the anxiety like I got to smoke again. I got to get high again. And I'm driving home from work and I've got this like vaporizer in my hand. And I remember it like so vividly. I would roll down the window and be like, this is it like you're quitting? And I go to throw the vape out the window. And in my head that limitation was like, you don't have any money in two days, you're going to want to smoke again and you're going to have to buy another thing, and it's just going to be a waste of money. So I hadn't fully made the decision yet to quit. I was still going back and forth because I had this limitation that like, I was creating a back door for myself. So I'd go to throw it out the window and then I'd pull it back in and like, roll the window back up. Then I'd go through the cycle again, like Jackie, want to chase this entrepreneurship goal. You know that the weeds getting in your way. It's like limiting your productivity. And this is what you have to do. Like just fucking quit. Like, today's the day you're done with it. So I'd roll down the window and go to throw it out again in the same cycle would happen. And I just kept going back and forth, like going to throw it up, roll up the window. And it was like really taxing on me. I was like, why can I not fucking quit this? So I finally make it back to my grandmother's house, and I'm sitting in the car just in the parking lot by myself, and I'm like, still going through this, like, conflict. And I'm asking myself, like, what do you want, Jack? I think I like freight, you know, I'm not super religious, but at the point time I think I like, prayed and like I basically asked like, please, like give me the strength to, like, get over this and like, get my life on track because it feels like everything is working against me. And I still couldn't throw it out the window. And I just, like, kept, like going through this process, like by praying, essentially. And I just start fucking breaking down. And I was like, I start breaking down crying because I just felt like I had all this potential. I knew exactly what it took to to get there, but I just couldn't make the decision to, like, jump into this new lifestyle and completely change my identity. Yeah. So I'm literally just like crying. And my grandmother's, parking lot. And I just kept, like, saying, like, just give me the strength to get get over this limitation and like, move into this new life. And I remember it felt like water was draining out of my body. This like, blanket got, like, laid over me in this warmth and this new aura, just, like, entered my body. It was the weirdest feeling. And I just like, without question, jump up out of the car. I had a skateboard in the back of the car, and I slam the vape on the ground, and I literally, like, bashed this thing into a million pieces. And in my head, I had finally made the decision. I was like, I'm done with this shit. It's out of my life. I'm not turning back, and I am going to go chase everything that I've ever wanted to do, and I'm not going to stop until I get it. This is like I backtracked a little bit, but this is like before Covid hit. But it was. Covid came like a couple months after that, I think. So I and I might be giving the timelines a little bit mixed up, but I remember going upstairs like to my grandmother's house and I'm like, now what am I going to do with my time? There's nothing to do here. I'm like bored and usually I would just smoke weed and chill and like, watch TV. But now I have nothing to do. So like, was like, I put all this attention into building your company. I would do like, I didn't know what the company was yet and I'd already done that. All this stuff that rod wanted me to do. So I was just trying to find little tasks to keep myself occupied in, like reading books and like just filling that space that I would have usually smoked and like, just chilled with, like, productive energy to keep myself distracted. So at this point, like, I quit working for Chris, I know that I'm not getting the sales training that I need, and I knew that to start the business, I needed to understand how to do sales. So my buddy Sebastian was working for a solar company doing doorknocking for the solar company, and I end up like flying down to Tampa and taking this like solar job with them. Went from like what would have been like a sexy job in a financial advisors office to like, working with. Like it seemed like deadbeats at the time knocking doors. But I knew if I knocked like a shit ton of doors, that was the fastest way that I was going to learn sales. So I go down to Tampa with him, were there for like a week, and it was like kind of like, not really the best set up situation. Like he told me to come down and everything was prepared, but it really wasn't. But I was super, super hungry. Now at this point, like I've quit smoking weed. I was fucking determined. And so the CEO of the company recognized this and he's like, dude, you have no place down here with Sebastian. Like, he doesn't have a place for you to stay. Like it's going to all get fucked up. But we haven't. Our main office is in Rhode Island. We have an office there. Like you can live at the office until you get your stuff self going. So I'd only been in Tampa for like 3 or 4 days or less than a week, and they fly me back up to Rhode Island. They give me the weekend, and the next Monday I come with my bag of shit and I move into this office up in Rhode Island in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. It was literally an office place. I had a, mattress on the ground, an air mattress on the ground. And every morning I would walk up. I didn't have, a car. I would wake up and I would walk out to the ghetto of target and start selling solar. And I was, like, so determined. Like, I am going to figure out if I can figure out how to make money door knocking, like I can do anything. So I think it took me two months of doing this process, six days a week, waking up and just grinding to get my first sale. And then I start like, you know, making some money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And in the background, I'm still doing this is like aligned with the end of that, like time where I was doing the stuff with rod. So I backtrack on the story, but there were like two storylines going on at the same time. So I'm like figuring out how to do the solar stuff. I think I'd been doing it for like two months now, and in the background we're getting to the end during that, like that process. That's when I went down to Myrtle Beach, was at the same time that I was doing this stuff with solar, and then Covid hits and knocks everything off track. So I started making money with the company, started doing really well with the solar company, was learning a lot. We were doing a bunch of personal development stuff, and then I'm getting the like all the models together for, the nursery and then Covid hits. So it derails everything. And at that point I was back to like, what am I going to do with this time? And I think, like half the people you talk about say, like Covid was the worst time of their lives and half the people say Covid was the best time of their lives. I went back to my dad's house. I was sleeping on the couch. You know, we had like good time together. But I used all of that time and put it 100% into ecological improvement. So I at the time, like I knew that the nursery was derailed because rod told me that the, people weren't going to be investing money. We didn't really have a, understanding of how long Covid was going to last. And so I was like, okay, I have to remodel this business. And so I would just go down to the beaches in Cape Cod during Covid by myself when the lockdown was happening. And I would just like on an Instagram page, I think I made an announcement that I was starting this company, Ecological Improvements, and I got my buddy to build me a shitty website, and I would just make these videos down at the beach, like talking about my knowledge of environmentalism and the problems with erosion. So I had no understanding of like what the business was going to be, but I was determined that I was going to make these videos and figure it out along the way. And now I'm fully committed to starting my own business. So through Covid, I put all that time into like building the business. Covid ends. I think it's the summer of probably 2020 or 2021. No, excuse me, Covid was still going on, but they had dropped the lockdowns back. And in Rhode Island we are still able to work. So the door knocking team went back out to Rhode Island. I got like a bunch buddies to come work for me. we were down living in Newport and we get back to the doors. Did like probably two months of that and I wasn't really seeing a way to like scale with this company, and I really wanted to start my own company. So I ended up quitting the solar company, went back to like, not having any income. And I'm like, I have to if I've done this, I've built this sales team with this solar company. I went from making zero money. I was straight commission sales and I found a way to sell door to door. I can do this for myself. So I end up like making the decision in a week that I'm going full bore into ecological improvements, which is my company now. So I call this guy that I met at the conference, Brian Fisher. And he was like, installing this erosion control, matting. That seemed like an easy way for me to enter the business. And I hit him up and I'm like, hey, Brian, I know we met, like at the conference. I'm like, going to start II and I want to learn from you how to do this business. I'm going to be a contractor and start installing the stuff. And he's like, you know, Jack, like, I wish a lot of my guys followed up with me the way you did. And like from the conference to that point, I didn't I still wanted to do the nursery and he didn't have any involvement with like, the nursery business, but he seemed like someone who was a good entrepreneur who was really getting after it, someone that was a good example of what I wanted to be. So I stayed in touch with him and I would call him like once every couple weeks and just check in, never talk about business, just like see how he was doing, how the business was going. And then six months later or whatever, it's the summer and I want to go start this business I call on him and he's like, yeah, I wish you like more people following up like you do. I see your drive and I'd love to help you out. If you come down to Florida, you can like, go with my cruise. I'll teach you. How do we do this business and do with it what you want? I think he had expected me to, like, need more planning. I'm like, I'm ready to go. Like, he's like, okay, like, when do you want to come down? I'm like, I'll literally leave today. and you need a little more time. But I think we like, arranged that. I was going to go down there a week from then. So like 6 or 7 days later, I packed up my entire life I was living in, Rhode Island or up in the northeast. Packed up my entire life, packed up a car that I was able to buy, like with the money that I had gotten from solar over, like the past, you know, six months and, shot down to Florida. And at the time, I was a buddy of my dad had a house down in Miami that he let me shack up at for a little bit. And I was going in, going out with the cruise for Brian and like, learning the business and starting to put together this new model. And the biggest lesson that I learned from building the nursery was as an early entrepreneur, it's very difficult to start a business that requires a lot of capital. I was starting to figure out, like how I can start my business with very little capital and so what I figured out was like, the best way to do it is either like as a subcontractor, as a broker. So I realized spending time with Brian, there was an opportunity with this company that was trying to that was trying to get their business going, their erosion control business going, and they were a really large company, but they were having issues with labor. So I figured out, like the first way for me to enter this business was to provide labor to this company. So it didn't require me any capital. I first sold myself to them. Like, I can run your cruise for you. you'll just pay me as a 1099 to my company. So I got myself in there. Then I was like, you know, we need two more people. So I got two more people down, and I was up charging like 30% on what I was paying the labor. So now I had a business and I'll start to make a little bit of money. And I was making like, you know, I think 4 or $5000 or six, 6160 was how much I was billing them per week for four guys plus myself. And I think of that I was making like $2,000 profit a week, which was pretty good money within six months. So moving down to Florida, but it was super crazy. Like I didn't have a place to live. The contractor would give us housing while we were working on the jobs, so we would be in hotels, like all over Florida. And then when we didn't have a job to do, they wouldn't pay us. They wouldn't give us housing. So they could be like, okay, we don't have a job for five days. And me and all the crew, we'd have to find a place to live. So I would either cut into the profits that I just had to get us an Airbnb for 4 or 5 days, or a hotel, or we would just sleep in our cars. So that was for like a good year of subcontracting with this company, just traveling wherever this company went in Florida and just living from hotel to hotel and Airbnbs. So what was the lesson from this? Like? I was learning that the most important thing it didn't. I started putting the money secondary. And I realized that, like the most important thing is that I get the knowledge, because once I have the knowledge, I have the leverage to make the money. So with solitude, like at the beginning, it was just me working for them as a subcontractor, which I wasn't making very good money, but I'm like, if I can work for them, I can start installing this product that I want to install for myself, but I don't have to take the risk of doing it on my own, and I don't have to take the capital to learn how to do it, because I can do it on their dime. So I started installing with them and learning the business, and then I start bringing other people in. And now I'm starting to make, you know, some profit. I'm getting the knowledge. So after doing that for like eight months now, we're at the point where we're like a really good installer. We made all our mistakes on their jobs and like they absorb the risk of it. But it got to the point where, like I understood the business pretty well. We knew how to do the installation and we were ready to go out and like, do our own installations at this point in time, like the guy, Brian Fisher, who introduced me to this opportunity, he had like seen the success that we'd have over the past like six months. And he I told him how I wanted to start doing it on my own, the business on my own. And he's like, you've earned my trust. Like, I'm going to give you $50,000 to start the company. So he gave me like an investment and he was like as part of that, though, like, I'm going to give you these two partners that work for me right now, and I'm about to sell my company and I'm going to siphon these guys off. And like at the time, like he kind of sold it to me as like they already understood the industry. They've been doing it for, like, you know, five, ten years. Like they'll be a good asset to you. Like, looking back, I think he was more just trying to like, put people in that he'd been with for a long time to kind of like, oversee his investment. So he gave me these two partners. And at that point in time, I'd tried two times to get investment, raise money with no success. So this guy's about to give me 50, 50 grand. I'm like, where's the dotted line? I'll fucking signed. I didn't really like, think of the implications of that. So I take on, you know, these two partners and, we start the business and solitude, like, stop subcontracting us. And so we go through this lull. I had, like, a good amount of money saved up at this point, probably like 15, 20 grand. But we go through this lull where we don't have any money anymore. The bank accounts bleeding. I got these guys that are working for me. So that was like my first bit of adversity that had gotten thrown in front of me. And I remember my business partner saying to me, like, what are we going to do? Like, how do we get through this? I said to him, like, whatever it takes, like where there's a will, there's a way. And I was starting to learn this process of entrepreneurship, that life throws adversity in front of you. And as long as you are determined to get through it, as much as life throws adversity at you, if you're committed, it will also put a solution in front of you. And I had learned this now over like the past year. And so I remember saying to him, like, it's going to, it's whatever it takes. So we built this like I took all these guys that were my installers and we had this little office in Boca Raton. We start doing cold calling. I start using the model, that I was using in solar, and we built these pitches and got these lists and start cold calling. People start and build my first sales organization and develop a sales process. and we start getting some jobs. And so the solution presents itself to us and we got a $10,000 job and then we get $100,000 job. Now I'm like starting to make some serious money. And then we get a big golf course. I think we got Trump International. And now our name is getting out there. Now golf courses are starting to call us. And I think that first year we did half $1 million in revenue in the time was just flying by, flying by. And now we're kind of getting our bearings. Second year we did like a million and a half in revenue and like now I'm starting to make some good money. I think third year we got up to like 2.2 million in revenue. But it was getting to the point where, like we were really spreading it on what we could do. And I was trying to figure out how to how to scale up this business, and what the next steps were. And I didn't have the knowledge to do that. So I knew, like through my process, I got to go out and like, learn from someone who's done this and figure out, like, the next steps to take this business to the next level. And at that point, like with my partners, I was starting to learn the like, politics of business. there were some egos involved and like, I was more advanced with the like, politics of communication. And like, my partners were not as aware of their egos, so they wanted to do things their way. I don't think they really understood entrepreneurship. They were looking at things from like an employee mindset, and we had some friction between like my big dreams and their like the realistic expectations that they had. They were a little more conservative. So I was kind of butting heads, but I was like trying to be a good partner. So I would just like let them do what they wanted and, you know, let them control the sales that, you know, my partner, he wanted to be the guy that did the sales. And like, he was kind of like Type-A, like I wanted to have control of what happened in the company. And I didn't mind giving that to him so that to keep the peace within the company. So that was all working out fine at the time, but there was definitely a little bit of friction. Friction. So I needed to figure out like what the next step was within the business. And now I'm making like pretty good money. We did two, $2.5 million in revenue and rod, the guy who helped me out with the nursery business, one of my early mentors, was going on this trip down to Panama, where he would basically go with these, like of like super high net worth, like heavy hitters, and they'd go on these like fun trips, like once or twice a year. And he invited me down as kind of like reward, like you've made it into the winner's circle, like you made it as an entrepreneur thus far. So he brings me down on this trip to Panama and there's like, you know, guys there with 100,$200 million, like just fucking around, like having fun, taking a break. And there was a guy down there who lived down in Panama, Jose Goldner. We've had him on the podcast in the past, and I just like got a sense that he had very high influence and I could see how he was communicating. He was very humble, you know, didn't flex in any way. He was driving like a pickup truck, didn't really dress fancy, but I could see psychologically he was really powerful. And so throughout the trip kind of started asking him some questions, like, I'm starting this business. And he was giving me a little advice and like things that were like pretty profound to me about the business. And something just my intuition told me, like, this is the guy that I've got to learn from. And so I did kind of a needs assess. I knew, like, I can't just like go and ask him to help me out with my business. That's not how you get anything. I got to figure out what this guy needs and bring value to him. and then hopefully, like, he'll return that that value to me in the future. So I did him needs assessment with him. Like, what are you trying to do down here? And he was telling me about, like, all these ventures that he's going on and all this opportunity in Panama about how it's really difficult to get human resources. So it wasn't even like a week after that trip, I flew back down to Panama and he told me I could like, come any time. And I showed up at his house and he's I'm like, here I am. I'm like, I'm going to try to help you get like people down here. And so he would be going to these like business meetings and like driving around and doing these political meetings with these super heavy hitters like owners of Marriotts and like mayors. I remember we met with the mayor of Miami and meeting with the president of Panama and like going to all these meetings and just kind of as his sidekick. And he was like, yeah, if you want to come along, that's fine. And he would debrief me and be teaching me like all these things and giving me this mentorship. And in return, I was just like doing whatever it took. And next lesson that I'll give here is like, I never once asked him for money. I wasn't asking him for money, which was there was very little risk for him. I could do like all this work, but he didn't have to pay me anything. And in exchange I was getting the knowledge. And that's where I knew the value was. And that's like one of the biggest lessons that I can give is so many people are limited in their opportunities because they need that salary and to learn from the best of the best guys, like the best mentors, they're not going to pay you a salary. They're chasing deals. They want to keep their capital expenses low. You're probably not going to be able to bring a lot of value to the deal, but if you can go in without needing a salary and just focus on that knowledge, that's going to be the most valuable situation that you can be in. So I knew that if I learned from this guy who is able to bring together $100 million deal, I'm going to get this knowledge from him. I'll give whatever it takes to get that knowledge, and then I'll be in that in that circle. So I was down there like learning from him. And after like eight months of doing that and I had an agreement with my partners, like, I'm going to go down here, I think this guy can really help us out. You guys run the business stateside. And they had agreed with me, looking back like they were happy to get me out of the business because they were trying to, like, essentially fuck me over and, like, make the business their own and siphon off the clients. But in my head, I'm down in Panama like, we're going to get this guy on board and like, I'm going to come back and like a year's time and we're going to grow the business and take it to the next level. When the cats are away, the mice will play like they're telling me everything's good. We're communicating on the phone like everything's great, like you're doing fine down there. But in the back they're siphoning off the clients. They're telling the employees, all of our partners that Jack's down in Panama surfing like he's abandoned the business. Like, really like making a coupe against me. So I get home after, like, eight months. He's like, okay, let's take a look at your business and see, like, what you're what you're doing and what's going on. And I remember I booked a trip and brought him down to, Florida. And he was like, show me every bit of the business. I want to meet everyone. So he went through and did an analysis of my entire business. I think we spent my two weeks traveling around like, going through, like the different projects, like meeting my partners and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We come back to Panama and he's like, this is my takeaway. He's like, your two partners. They're going to fuck you over and your manufacturer that you're working with, like, he's in cahoots with them and they're all working together and they are not your friends. And I was like, nah, dude, that's crazy. I'm like, there is some friction, but they're like, not going to make any moves. He's like, no, God, don't listen to me. He's like, I've been doing this for a very long time. You know? He's a very powerful, powerful interrogator and psychologist. And this is what his he came up with. but I was kind of rejecting what he told me because I just didn't want to believe me. I believe that now, probably two months goes by and I get a phone call, like, from my partner, like, we're going to split off and do our own thing. And I'm like, that's fine. Like, but what are we going to do with the clients? And he's like, well, you can you're free to reach out to the clients, but they're up for grabs. And basically, like he had always said, I want to have the relationships with the client. So he was saying to me like, we can both go after the clients, but I've already got the relationship. So he was fully about to fuck me, like, take all the business from me and leave me with nothing. And it was exactly what Jose said was going to happen. So the next step was like he kind of Jose, since I'd helped him out and built a lot of trust with him over the last eight months. He was like, I'm going to help you navigate this, this issue. So we end up going into like a settlement agreement, and Jose's going through this masterclass on like how to control a lawsuit when you're getting fucked over. And I remember, like Rod and Jose being like, you got to drain the money out of the bank account and put it in your own account, because that's what you're going to use to fight this like lawsuit. And I'm thinking in my head, like, is that legal? Like, I don't know if I can do that. And they're like pressuring me, like, dude pulled the fucking money out of the bank account. If they take that money, you're fucked. So I end up, like siphoning off all the money and we we use that to fight the lawsuit. Then we have the settlement agreement on how to put the money back together, or we put a contract together of how they were going to pay me. And like, that's like a whole nother story, like the psychology and the strategy for going through a, a lawsuit or a war within a company. And then it was actually the best thing that ever happened to me. I had to basically start the company fresh. So I moved up to Charleston. Jose got involved with the company, and he basically use the knowledge that I had learned over the past three years, starting the business and showed me how to, like, run a business in a more, efficient way. So what we created, he taught me how to create is a per unit due diligence. What does it require from start to finish to source a client and to enter a new market source, a client closed them and get revenue from them and each piece of that documenting it so that we can start to systemize it and take the time off my plate. At that point in time, everything, every bit of the business was in my head. But it was super difficult for me to delegate it. And he taught me, like, in order to delegate it, you have to start documenting everything that you're doing so you can revise this process down super simply. And then with each step that is along the road, you can create job descriptions for that and then you can delegate those processes. so pretty much for the next like 18 months after that, we went through that due diligence and started building the, the operational manual and like discovering how to sell the company and how to get it ready for acquisition. And like, you know, I look back eight months later, like just last week, we went to the table and sold 30% of the company. And as planned, everything that he said was going to come true happened. And, yeah, I mean, that's pretty much the fucking story that concludes this episode of Shakin’ Hands. I hope that was insightful. Do you guys, continue tuning in next time for some more interesting guests and conversations. And if you guys have anything that you want to ask me any questions at all, things that you want to hear on the podcast, please do not hesitate to reach out next.