Shakin' Hands

Ep.38 | The International Playbook - Rod Robertson

• Jack Moran • Season 1 • Episode 38

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Rod Robertson, Managing Partner of Briggs Capital, returns to the podcast to discuss the realities of international business. They discuss conducting business across borders and examining the challenges and opportunities that arise. The conversation also focuses on innovative strategies for thriving in today’s fast-paced markets, navigating risky ventures, and securing profitable exits.

Briggs Capital
Rod Robertson

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Welcome to Shakin’ Hands, where we provide the platform for entrepreneurs and thought leaders to share their stories in order to hopefully influence others to get out of the rat race and chase their own dreams. If you have any recommendations for guests or questions that you want to be asked, please don't hesitate to reach out. Anyways, if you enjoy the podcast, please like, comment, subscribe and share in order to keep the podcast growing. Otherwise, I'm your host, Jack Moran and this is Shakin’ Hands. Are you entertained? I'm here to entertain you today. I'm here to tell you stories that are true and may be exaggerated or twisted over time. Because reality always changes, doesn't it? Yeah it does. Absolutely. It's ever evolving. That's your quote? Yes. It's always evolving. The winners can rewrite history. My God, Joseph Stalin himself wrote out 30 million people. I've only written out about 100, so I'm okay with that. You know, the winners rule. But in life, I think, and in business, the stories, the stories of defeat, mayhem, chaos, disgrace, I think this is where the action said, you know, I don't I don't want to hear about the the new AI, unicorns and everyone making billions. I'm tired of Zuckerberg and all those, you know, big ass bullshitters. I want to talk about the people who fallen and gotten trampled and run over. So what have you been up to recently? Have you seen any of those tramples or oh, my life is a continued stampede. And, you know, I've been doing this, investing and having people invest in different companies and, it's just nuts. It's mayhem of a different order for, for decades I've been doing this and it's it's like being a gladiator. So I'm glad to be in the arena and I'm glad to, pull different people into my world. And, a lot of them don't like me at the end of it, at the exit. But it's okay. Them, the men and the women that go into the arena, hats off to them. Let's do it. Let's roll. What have you got going right now? Oh, you know what I'm rolling down in Guatemala. You know, we've been pulled into this enormous deal down there where the the Panama Canal is drying up a little bit. And, what we're looking to do is raise, you know, $1.5 billion, my group to build a railroad that will go up from Guatemala into Mexico and then branch off into the United States. But there's all sorts of issues because of what's happening with China, is forcing the, our relationship with Mexico to grow exponentially. And so China is going down. Mexico's coming up the goods. We need more shipment coming through the south. But on this railroad, it's on the migrant trail coming up to the United States. And, it's it's nuts. We've been, I was up there, and then we cross into, to Mexico. And what do we find waiting for us? But we find the cartel, the cartels, the cartel boys are sitting there, you know, letting them know that they're part of the deal, you know? And I said, who are these guys in the the half tracks and the guns? I know who they were. And they said, oh, these. They want to be your business partner. So there was a lot of fun. And so, you know, we're sitting there trying to raise the money. You know, it's very difficult. Like anything, to raise that kind of money. So we're, we're breaking it down into tranches. But, it's it's it's a lot of fun. And, I would say 80% of my work life is fairly dumb, you know, domiciled here in the States, but 80% of my fun is overseas. I just I just can't get enough of the action overseas. I never seem to make any money there, but I make lifelong friends and enemies. And, it's like the Wild West out there because there's no rules, there's no regulations, and it's always screw the gringo out of all the gringos I know and Americans that have gone overseas, I'd say, let's say there's 80 of them, maybe four have been successful, or five everyone else gets screwed and tattooed by the locals one way or another. You know, the the slice of a thousand deaths, like, look at Russia, in Russia now, over 800,000 people have fled the young people and in their 20s and 30s that have skills that can leave the country. Where do they go? They go to, a lot of them are gone to Dubai, but now Dubai is setting it up there that when, the young Russians are coming, they have to partner with somebody from Dubai. The money can come into Dubai, but it can never leave. So they're getting that. They're getting plucked like chickens over there. It's. Every country has its way of, taking the gringos to the cleaner. And, So beware if you're ever looking to start a business or do a business overseas, you have to have an overseas partner, a trusted partner, hopefully, and to keep them as a good partner, you have to overpay them or give them more of the slice of the pie than you would in the United States, because you got to feed them first and you feed second. And if you're doing business overseas, don't do it just to make money. There's got to be something else involved. You got to love to travel. If you want to go to the volcanoes, the mountains, it gives you a reason, like Joe, the great things you're doing down at Panama. You know, you're mixing pleasure with life. You know, you're out there surfing and then you're cracking deals. It's it's awesome. And that's the way it's got to be just to make money overseas. It's a fool's game for, for most Americans, we all get scalp one way or another. How do you, like, bring into your control a deal that has so many variables? Volatile variables like the cartel in Guatemala. How do you, you know, control your environment and control that deal in a situation like that? You know, it's like when I went to the dinner, they said, oh, with this, some people want to meet you, Congressman, this, that and, and, I sat down at the dinner and there's some strange men at the end of the table, and this has happened to me in Romania. One time I hosted, I was the host of a reality show at Dracula's Palace. It was this ridiculous show. But I was, like, bored. I was looking for something to do, and they. And then I got called by my agent who said, hey, you know, do you want to go to Dracula's palace and Transylvania? And then, you know, and I was like, well, I have some business I'm trying to do over in that sector. So I went to Dracula's palace. It was, and I when I got there, I was I was pretty jazzed up, you know, I'm a dude. I'm a Dracula man. And, and I was at the palace and I said to these ten people that were dead, I said, I am honored to be here at Dracula's Palace. And they were like, yeah. And I said, how did you select me? They said, we asked 20 people, and you're the only one to say yes. So, so I said, I said, okay, I know you're not paying me. I want to have some real thrills and chills here. I want to sleep in Dracula's bed and I don't do drugs, but I want to smoke a little hash before I get in that bed. And I said, I want to be locked in the museum by myself. And it all happened. I was I was scared as shit for, till the sun came up. We could see, like, me in the museum. But it was a great time. So, you know, you got to have that extra oomph, overseas where you're going to mix business and pleasure and, you know, it gets on to, you know, talking about having an overseas partner. It gets on to talking about mentorship, you know, with mentors, you know, everyone. It's a great thing. And some must, I think for all young people who have aspirations for really ripping it up, you know, if you're going to take to the road less traveled, but, you know, you sit there with your mentors, there's the good, the bad and the ugly. I mean, a lot of these guys that are, and it's mostly men, that is, they sit around, you know, with their murky old school credentials, and they're going to come to, you know, a young hotshot like you, and they're going to say, oh, I can do this, or I can do that, or, you know, if you ever hear the word Rolodex, you're run. I mean, that's that's like my father's time. So, you know, you really have to check out who your mentors are, and you have to check their credentials out. Don't listen to someone horseshit, you know, and send you over some nice, written materials or whatever. You got to be able to really check in their background and understand who they have and what have they accomplished, because there's a lot of posers and hosers out there that are just going to try to latch on to young, brilliant people and, you know, they're going to wrap their credentials around. But the really smart money boys and women are going to go back and they're going to sift through and find out that this guy's a pretender and you're going to look like shit. So really, I really advise people to to go through and check out what they're doing and, you know, get it done correctly by building your mentors and, you know, with your mentors, there's I don't think it's wise to have a mentor for one situation or, you know, for over for overall your whole game plan. It stinks. It's just not good. They have an expertise at this. You know, you can have your you know, your your personal mentor. You can have. But in business, you know, you want to have a finance mentor. And then you want to have a builder mentor. You know, there are two different animals. You don't need a legal or accounting mentors, but you got to have two people that, can you can bounce ideas off of and that can, you can stick them on each other to at the right time, or they got to battle it out for you, and you just sit back. And, J.R., I've seen you do this a lot, you know, and and the tumultuous world you live in, you know, you you developed a great pull. The mentors. And I see how, you know, you face them off very smartly and adroitly, and then you come back and you're drawing the, correct conclusion for the next stage of your business. So I think, looking at mentorship, just gotta pick the right one, man or the lead you down the drain, and then what they're going to do if the mentors don't have money, that's what it. What a telltale sign. And they're they're scuffling and squealing along the path. I'm giving you a big advice, but then they're starting to try to nickel and dime you off, and you understand that they're they're freaking broke, you know, like these suits. What's this here? So and there's a good reason for certain people to be broke because you know what? They they ran hard. They did it hard. They put it all out there. And it didn't happen. And it didn't happen. Hey, they're they're the gladiators in the arena that, you know, I think it's true. You know, when I did some work over at the Harvard Business School teaching, I'd like to end at Babson, and I've taught at maybe 10 or 15 major. MBA schools when they're releasing those students into the world. And the big thing is, you know, you're going to get your ass kicked out there, but don't become pompous. You know, you're going to have a lot of responsibility. But let's talk about the crash and burns. Let's not talk about the success stories. I mean, you don't learn. Yeah. I don't want to talk about all these IPOs. I don't, you know, I mean, after after work, I want to have a drink, and I don't want to. I don't want to talk about business unless it's like a story of life and death and romance and loss and the government and all sorts of crazy shit. Like a movie. Yeah. You know, in the evening when you're out, it's all all these years I go out, you know, and I see like ten guys in a room and five of them are talking about business. I know those five guys got no game. And they're they're like someone's old man sitting there Laughs over here Laughs when I was your age I love to hear that when I was your age, I feel like I'm back at Draculas Palace and I got to drive a stake through their heart as I just tell them, you got to leave the room, man. I'm not going to talk to you. What are you, like, some some, red flags that, or better put, what are some common things that you see mentors do? Bad mentors. To leave the mentor with the bad. You know what I mean? Yeah. What's a common thing that you see happen? You know, when they start to encroach on other areas, you talk to them for a specific reason. They get connection to help you maybe build a growth strategy for your business trip off here. Young kid gone. Yeah. So when they when they have they start trying to get into your personal game a little bit. And all of a sudden, you know, this is someone's 30 years old and they're, they're getting bounced around in their personal life a little bit in this and that. When they start giving you advice on that, then they start and then they start. And you see, I'm starting to call the people you introduced to and starting to network with them this this is a bad sign. Okay. Let's just say, what are you doing getting your fingers on these other pies of mine. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. No, they're because that's how they do it. They do the creep. But there's nothing better than a great mentor. But you don't make it personal because a lot of the bad ones, they want to make it personal. They want you to become dependent upon them and don't become dependent on anybody. You have three different horses that you're three different mentors, and you balance them in your work, like like your private board of directors. But I like that the mentor who controls the money and shows you the dough. This is the most important one, because all of a sudden you can end up drained on the side of the road and gasping like a fish. And that's it's happened to me a couple times, especially in my ill begotten youth, when I open up a diamond mine down in Brazil and got stripped like a chicken by DeBeers, that was, we need a cocktail and I'll tell you about one again. Have you ever had any bad mentors? Yes, I, I've had a couple and some big ones too. Big name guys. And they were too old and too long in the tooth and they were applying corporate strategies or, or things that were out of date. I mean, things are evolving so quickly. I mean, you know, and if you look at these mentors that are really over 40, 50 and if you're in tech or your business is rapidly growing, these guys in their 50s and 60s and got, you know, hopefully not their 70s, I don't know. You have to be suspect about them. They can teach you the blocking and tackling of business, but they can't teach you the intuitive skills that the younger generations have. I mean, the they're just they're they're out of their league. They're out of their domain during the more placid like next door. Gotcha. Yeah. I have a good question that, you might have some insight. Obviously, you have a good law, an awareness of, what's going on in the government. How do you think? Obviously, there's a lot of stuff changing in politics right now. How do you think that's going to influence business going down the road? Well, I think it's certainly opportunities that are coming from it. You know, I really don't think so. If we're talking about entrepreneurship because we're in a shallow end of the pool. I mean, there are people that are in regulated businesses that are maybe going to get a little less regulated so they can't make as much money. But I think for entrepreneurship, it's like my friends at the State Department or different agencies that I know, everyone says, you know what, the government's come to governments go. And we all civil servants, we stay here, you know, and people are screaming out like about Trump right now. But you know what? He'll be gone in three and a half years. He'll be in and out. And then this great controversy just marches, marches on. So no, I don't think so. I think looking at, you know, the, the big the big picture doesn't affect the small ponds. Well, we're all playing them. They're true, you know, and, you know, I think if you can look at your game, whatever you're doing and like, like, we're sports stars, you know, we're all three years here, five years there. How how many people do I don't even know people under the age of 50 that have been doing the same thing unless they're a doctor or something. But, you know, entrepreneurs two years here, three years there, then you sign up for a gig there and that's fine. You know what? What I think is, you know, one way to look at, chasing, you know, the golden ring, if you have dreams outside of, you know, the picket fence, and there's a car in the barbecue out back with your buddies, if you if you really want to rip it, there's two ways to look at it. You can go and get a job, work your ass off, you know, like in tech in something, and plow through it until you're 40 and then pull your head up and hopefully you've got a couple million in the bank. And then you can do the 8020 rules where you can just enjoy your work, but then take off 30% of your time and go from there and enjoy it. That's the safe pattern. The other, the reverse side. If you decide like what you did in your 20s, to take that 20% and say, fuck it, I'm just going to roll the dice right out of the chute and tortures myself to death. And, I'm going to throw the picket fence in the suburbs away, and I'm just going to I'm just going to go for it. I mean, those people, you know, there's more tragedies and triumphs, but the triumphs are magnificent. And, so you out of that 20% three hit it. They be, you know, you get your stock options or anything, you can make it. But, you know those people, you can take the safe route where you go work and then you accumulate wealth and then you enjoy your life. Or you can go hard early, take the longer shot. But if you're if you're hooked into something really good, then you can make it and you can break the wheel. You can break all the norms of society that they try to put on you. And then when you're 40, or even if you're 35 and you got the dough and you've and you're what we call the full cycle in mergers and acquisitions, we look at, buyers of businesses or people that have been successful, the people that start the business, fund their business, grow their business and sell it. These people are doing the Grand Slam, the full cycle. And if you can come out and have the full cycle under your belt, by the time you're 30 or 35, your next gig will be that much easier. And all those wealthy guys and people you have developed your reputation. The next jump up, that's where the big money is. I say, don't try to, you know what? Do the full cycle, but don't be a hero on your first time out. You know, I've been doing the mergers and acquisitions and investing for around 30 years. And, you know what? I'm the first go around. It's my opinion. You take a single or a double, you don't go for the home run and you consolidate your credentials. And what's your credentials in hand? Then you get on the side of the road, you're like, okay, let me catch my breath. Maybe take a couple months off, you know, go scuba dive and go do whatever you want to do for a couple months, recharge and then get back in the game. But now you're a man or a woman in full. You have the full armor, you have the full credentials and your next gig. All of like really much, much better. And you'll make 3 or 4 times as much money. What's the difference between like a life's lifestyle business and going full cycle? I think that was brought into my awareness by you. Like you know, you make your money when you sell the company. So that became like, my strategy is like, how do I accomplish that exit? But without you telling me that I would have just been like on that hamster wheel. And I think there's a lot of people that aren't aware that there is like an end goal with starting their company and are setting up themselves to be in that lifestyle. Lifestyle business. Yeah, I think it's it's very, very important early on in the game to understand if a lifestyle business can be categorized as somebody where you're making 100 to 300 grand, the company is clicking over, it could be anywhere from retail to some type of service business where you're having a great time, you're doing it, and they can go on and on. But what's happening with lifestyle businesses right now? Everything is changing so fast. It's nuts. I mean, everything is like accelerating. Before it was like you could count on something to be relatively the same for 3 to 5 years, build it up, milk it, enjoy it, and then sell it and make a hit. But now what's happening with these lifestyle? Many businesses, small businesses is in 3 to 5 years so becoming obsolete. This AI stuff you know, I'm involved in raising money for, a big Hollywood play with AI. It's incredible what's going on. Eight Hollywood's being dismantled by AI. One of the hardest hit industries in the country, and they're frantic. It's spilling out everywhere. And, it's it's really incredible. So nothing's for certain and nothing's for sure anymore. And so I say, don't fool yourself that you're going to be doing the same thing, or your company is going to be good 3 to 5 years from now, you know, strike while the iron horse. Yeah. Always have it. Always be ready to sell your business to somebody else at any one time. The hardest thing is starting the business. So, you know, you start the business, get it off the ground, you get it lifted. And even after like a year, start thinking about sell on it. You don't have to, but get organized, get your offering memorandum together, have a great CPA and have your numbers and pay through the teeth in the beginning to have your finances in order. And then, you know, just make friends with somebody that knows something about selling your business. You're not your attorney. Attorneys going to attorneys to me are very you know, they're very limited in scope. I mean, the great at what they do in the CPAs, too, but they're just different type of animals. I mean, the people that sell businesses or money, people are running in a much more loose environment that's unregulated. So I say you get out there, you get your business going after a year or two, and then you're always thinking, can I rolled into somebody else's business who would like to? And as you're sitting there saying, who would like to buy my business? If you say, well, nobody wants to buy my business, then, then you're in, you're in the wrong businessman. I mean, no, no one's going to buy your business. Then you're going to have to run it ad infinitum by yourself. So you really have to, right from the beginning, build your company to be sold. Because unless you want to be, doing that same thing, you know, but who really wants to run a gym or or have a consulting practice? You should build your consulting practice so that a bigger consulting practice abides. So find that niche and always be surrounded with young mentors in the space can say, hey, you're missing out over here, the actions over here, and you're in a legacy business that's going to shit the bed. You got to swing your game over this way, and here's somebody I can introduce you to that you should partner with. And you know what? Maybe give that person 20% of the company they earn in over one, 2 or 3 years. You know, give them 5% a year, for three years for 15%. And it's what's called a cliff. The first year, if they don't make it through the first year, they get nothing. So at the end of the first year, they get 5%, then 5% and five. And then you tell them, let's sell this thing in three years. And if you like them, you move ahead with them into the next business. Interesting. You've talked about a couple of times, like raising money. I see everyone, all these entrepreneurs, everyone's raising money. I've always kind of went for the bootstrap model. Yeah. But what do you think is required for someone to start raising money successfully? Is there should they start right out of the gun? That's what I'm seeing. A lot of people have these ideas, and they want to raise $20 million with no functioning prototype or. Yeah, I think it's a, it's, a fine question to be asked at this stage at time because it sucks raising money right now. I mean, it is the most difficult period of time because things are so tumultuous, these interest rates, you can't go to the bank. So everyone who used to go to the bank can get money or, you know, you, everyone hear about SBA loans. Yeah, SBA loans are so hard to get and the banks are so finicky. If someone says to me, I got to get an SBA loan to complete a deal, I'll just tell, no, thank you. I don't you're not gonna be able to do it or it's going to be you're going to be so handicapped to do it. So right now, yeah, really, it's a sobering piece of time. We have five companies that five years ago we would have, you know, got them five, ten, 20 million. But, they're all suffering and languish and, out of the five, I think three are going to, you know, expire. And it's just sad. But, the interest rates are killing them because when there's high interest rates, you can't borrow to keep your inventory up. So you have don't have a lot of inventory. And it's just it's compounding the issues. What are the alternatives? If you can't raise money? Well, you know, it's the bootstrap game, you know. And it's looking at money right now is, you know, depending on what you're trying to do and what you're trying to raise, you know, there's the friends and family which takes you up to about 300 to 500,000. And and then there's the angels. That'll take you from 500,000 to 1.5 and over five. There's a round and the B round, you know, the, the angels, are predators now that because they're like vultures and crows picking at down, down the ladder at these beautiful ideas. But you know what? If you got to give up more right now, it's just, what are the collaterals of going with an angel? What are they typically asking for? What are they? What kind of deals are they seeking? Or are they, like, loan structures or, you know, the those sometimes guys themselves as your mentor and they can be a mentor in your segment of your business. And you know what? But you gotta check their credentials, man. I mean, a lot of these guys, they're a little long in the tooth and the stuff they said they do. You know what? I just don't go for it. You know, by the time you you peel it back, you know, half these guys are were born with money, and they're maybe throwing their wives money around a little bit, and they got some nice credentials, but, they really haven't done too much themselves. And what are the, like, investment bankers looking for? What kind of like an institutional money? Like, what are they looking for as far as credentials in a company to give money away. You know what they're they're looking for cash flow. If it's tech, they understand there's not going to be a huge bottom line, but they just got to see the revenues jump from one to 3 to 5. You know, even it's projected. But you got to get it up there and then know what they're going to do is they're going to say, well, if you get this much we'll give you more. They're going to they're going to harness you like a horse and work here. And, and you'll get to one spot. And then if you don't hit your goals, they're going to take more of your company from em before or after, while you can work your way out of the ownership of your company. And, they'll bring in somebody that, they think is better, but that's the worst case scenario. You know, I think, you just got to be really on top of your numbers now, because money's harder to get. And, you know, the way you did a job where you're just bootstrapping and get out in the field and, doing what you gotta do? I think it's the way to go these days. What were you saying to me the other day when, When I hit you up about the, United assassin? That's so hot in the media right now. And you said what's more interesting is, what's going on in Israel or what was. Oh, yeah, this is not really business related, but yeah. Yeah. Interesting to hear you talk about, you know, this this is the what's going on over there. You know, I have the, you know, I've done work with the State Department. I have my modest access routes into the U.S. government, and, so I'm pretty up to speed, I think, on it. And what is happening right now over in Syria is incredible. The Israelis have just masterminded the biggest series of triumphs that it's just incredible. You know, we won't get into the, you know, the, the, the, the, the exploding, the computers, what one thing after another, they decapitated Hezbollah, they crushed Hamas. And now Syria is was their next border enemy. They just in the last week, they just, 372 missions and they've destroyed their army, navy and Air force. You're not even hearing about it. They've laid waste to them. And then Iran, who's sitting on the other side, was using Syria as a training ground and a freight way into Israel. Now, what's happened is they they can't use that highway anymore. It's been destroyed. And the Syrians are pushing, Hezbollah and, the, their Iranian proxies back into Iran. So now there's this heightened speculation that, Iran is going to go faster trying to get their nukes up to speed. And the Israelis now have beaten the tar out of all their neighbors. And everyone is the Russians are gone. Everyone's gone. So now the Israelis are sitting there saying, do we go after the the, Iranian nuclear facilities? And what, because they're going to enrich uranium. So now and the the goal of all this, like, what are they trying to accomplish? I'm very naive to because if the Iranians now have shown that they can hit Israel with their ballistic missiles, even their shitty ones, and so they know that if they could pop a nuke on top of that, it's it's, a short ride to Tel Aviv. So the, so the, the the Israelis are really looking to, maybe decapitate, all their nuclear things. So in the next 16, 90 days, you know, there could be action by, Israel to do something, very harsh into Iran. And they they went in there already and they knocked down all their air defense systems. So it's like there's nothing can stop them. They can just go in there and do whatever they want. And then what about Ukraine? Russia? Are we on the tail end of that, do you think, or what's going on over there? Well, you know, the the the Russians are suffering 1600 casualties a day. They're, they're up to 700,000 total casualties. There are people what they don't understand is the the grinding a little bit forward, the, but their economy at home is totally shot. And in the next 18 months, Russia, the wheels are going to come off the company internally. And, it's, there's got to be a piece game here. But I've been through that region where they're fighting for years. I've been with the Kazakh generals. I've been all through that, not all of it, but a good swath of that I've spent quite a bit of time with. I was with, some different Ukrainian funds and, that area is destroyed. There's nothing. What they're fighting over now is a wasteland from some sci fi movie with, you know, dogs walking through the streets. There's no people. The infrastructure is shot. So nobody has the money to reconstruct that area. And what Russia's wants to do, I think, is just build a buffer there. And Putin's trying to get out with his, dignity intact and his 92% rating, approval rating at home. But that's not going to last as the economy crumbles. So, again, being naive that there's I could be completely wrong, but is there like a for the U.S.? And it seemed like the past administration that's on its way out had a big interest in this. But is there, like a military goal or are they just, like, trying to instigate conflict, just suck money out of, like, you know, create a funnel of money that's going over there and like, a need for. You mean our administration or the Russians, our administration. Like, like I don't understand how that works. Like, essentially, are they just like, it's great to have a conflict over there because then they can get taxpayers money to go over there, and then they're on the end of the funnel bleed in the bucket from the overseas. Yeah. Well, the the military industrial complex that has driven, so many of our mistakes, internationally is now, you know, coming to what people don't understand to what do Ukrainians is a lot of if we emptied out our warehouses, we you know, we have these huge at the ticket prices or give them our old boots. Our old guns are old armor vests. I mean, we're giving them our old C rations that are rotting. So you know, we put a dollar value on it. I think the administration has done a good job and emptied out our warehouses and and defang Russia and but now, with the new administration coming in, you know, everyone's already it's it's amazing that he's had like, he's met with 11 foreign leaders already. They're bypassing the the current president. They don't they're just, they're just in they're already dealing with Trump. It's it's amazing. So he's going to hit the ground running and he's going to shake it up. And you know the the German Federation, which they just their government fell like three weeks ago. And so and then in France, the government, just voted no confidence. They fell. So the two big players in Europe are in turmoil. The whole area is in chaos, except in the United States. All these people that say life is horrible here. I said, what are you, crazy? I mean, I admittedly I've been to 68 countries repeatedly, but this is the place where the action said, you know, it's it's just the best place, man. I mean, I think it'll be an interesting business in Mexico, but, you know, doing business in Canada sucks. You know, they're a bunch of socialists up there. All my friends up there. Hello. And, you know, but, America's just the best man. And that, like, look at the the way we're just ripping along. Everyone's complaining, but it's great that the, you know, Rome at the height of the Roman Empire ever. All the senators were bitching, you know, and they bitch for 300 years. You know, the Greeks. Socrates was laying in the in the bath bitching, you know. No, the America's the best, the strongest, and it's the best place to do business and the best place, I mean, as a business person, to make your dreams come true. Yeah. No, I've, I've realized through guys like you and Aussie, like, you know, growing up, you think these, like, politicians are like missionaries, but at the end of the day, that's like, you know, Trump's essentially going to be the CEO of the most powerful company in the world, which is the United States being the president. What goes on like behind closed doors, like, what are they negotiating for? One of their, you know, interest? Like, you know what I mean? Like like how it's business, right? So like, what is the dynamics of politics? Yeah. You know, it's like if you look at Trump, it's he's, he's, he's 77 years old, 78, he's old school, but he's, he's reckless and he's spoken the shit out of the people overseas, which is I think is great. Everyone's like, oh my God, what's this guy? They don't know what's what's going to happen. NATO is he's freaking them out and he does not he's traditionally not made his money through the, the arms industry. So he doesn't have an angle with him and his people to, you know, ferment more spending in the military, complex to fund overseas wars. I think he legitimately wants to to pull everything back into the states. And, you know, the the government's, everyone forgets. Look how they're changing out. I mean, five years ago, did any of us sit there and listen and agonize over who's going to be the secretary of state? Who's that guy gets our money for getting his name that got bounced. And, you know, they're they're all getting then the hyper extension of the media that is galvanizing everybody to just watch TV and the news networks and stuff, man. Well, we're all paying attention. The shit that five years ago we never paid attention to. Yeah. Do you want to keep chatting? I got some more question. Yeah, yeah. Not a set amount of yard, so I'll get that. But, I think my. So next where I would go, as you mentioned, that the beer story you want to tell that story because I love that fucking story. Yeah. Okay. So this, I was restless, you know, this buddy of mine, he was a defrocked attorney. God bless him. He calls me up and he's like, rod, I was going to merge my company with this other company. He was the lawyer representing the other company. And so I was in a meeting with like, 11 guys ganging up on me. And I was there saying, I want my company for this and that. He came to me and he was lawyer. Afterwards he comes to me and he goes right there, film and everything in there, and I'm really embarrass you. You're a stand up guy. He goes, they're going to take your company, and then I can live up to their obligations. And I was like, oh, man, thanks. And they're slick. And who are you? I said, well, I'm their lawyer. He goes, But I'm going to Brazil. I'm trying to do a deal down in the diamond mines. And I got your ticket, and I want you to meet me airport at Friday at 3:00. We're going to go for two weeks into the diamond mines up in the Amazon. And I was like, of course I'll go, you know, three kids at home. But I was like, I was shot, like out of a freaking cannon. So we ended up in this place. Franco is out in the middle of nowhere where the Amazon river trickles down, and, I'll cut out all the latter's stuff. If we were to drink a little bit, I'd tell you more, but. So we get there. And the De Beers had, where they have a world, grip on the diamonds, and they're sitting on these diamond mines. There we went. We got 17 farmers to, give us the rights to their land because we knew where that vein of diamonds was going. So we got the the vein of diamonds. We, buttoned it up good. And, we went to beers and we said to. I went to the beers, and they heard that this big American gringo was in town. I was hosting parties in this, this godforsaken place and with the mayor. And I was throwing around, you know, a thousand here, thought, you know, parties. And I was telling everyone that we were going to open up a competing diamond mind. And then I took my stroke of genius. I took like, 300 villagers and all of the farmers, and we looked and we're on the ridge of this valley, looking down to the where the land was. And, and I said, and here below, I can see everyone standing with me. They will each have a Cadillac within a year, and their children will go to Sam Barlowe, and their lives will change forever. Welcome to our company. News spread like wildfire. On Sundays, three guys out of like, a bad movie show up. You know, the Land Rover. They're like, get in the car. I said, I am not going in the car. They said, get in the car. Take me for a ride out into the jungle. And, they said, hey, look in the bucket. There is a bucket of diamonds. They said, reach in there and take a fistful of those and go home. As your souvenir. But I said, we've already taken money, and we you know, the guys looked at me and he goes, take the diamonds. And I. You know what? I took a fistful of diamonds. And I went home and I said, I need 22 diamonds. And I sent one to each investor and said, excuse me for losing your money, but this I'm not coming back that place again. Those men said they were going to do some terrible things to me. Oh my God, that's saying, oh, it was a great story. That's one of my favorite of all time. And, you know, sitting here, my job is to bleed the knowledge out of your brand. And I've been doing that for, you know, seven years now. Yeah. But I want to do it for our audience. I have another good question that I think would be interesting to hear your take on it. If you didn't have the credibility that you had, you didn't have the credentials or the contacts that you had, and you wanted to get a meeting with the president of a country. Yeah. And you got dropped in that country. What would be your strategy to work your way up from, like landing at the airport and no one, no one to getting a meeting with one of the top people in the entire country. How would you go about doing. Oh, man, that that's really good. I mean, and and I've, you know, I've done that. You only can do that like in Romania. Moldova, you got to do it where there's a lot of hurt, anguish, greedy men and woman. And you got to promise everybody they're going to get a cut of some type of cake. Okay? And, and then you have to find somebody that believes in you and the dream and is willing to run. What's a lark to, to get that access to somebody that can get you to the the top? Well, you just landed at the airport. Like, how is your brain thinking in that situation? You just got the mission to get to the top. I mean, I would go to the US embassy first. Okay? I would go to the embassy. I, I'd scope up to the country. I look at every business there and see what everyone's doing. And then I would select 8 or 10 executives and I would develop a presentation of these foreign countries that live in, like in the yester world. I mean, they like the old slide show. They like, you know, the guys that are controlling these countries. And it is guys are, in their 50s and 60s and 70s in the States. It's all it's all good. But overseas it's old school, old money, everyone knows wants the back. Sheesh. Everyone wants to take, the pace. And if he got a good game, you know what? And they got the, you know, you got what it takes you. You should be able. And you're a bullshitter, you know. And you can tell the big story like I did standing over the valley with the villagers. I mean, you got to have that type of game. So why would someone help you? Like, if, you know, because I've learned this through, like, being around you and Jose. Like, you don't have to go into the bottom of a company and say, I want to get a marketing deal. The reason why I'm asking this is because, like, there are ways to get to the top of a company and like strike deals and work your way up and like you can go directly to the top guy. But what is like, you know, I want to kind of get into like, human nature a little bit and like, why would someone, a taxi driver that you meet in front of the airport, why would they help you? How would you be thinking psychologically to get inflow, to get them to help you to work your way up their network? I think that just getting dropped in there and starting from zero would be tough. You'd have to spend six weeks before doing your groundwork and laying out your story, presenting your credentials correctly, and then going in and executing on top of it. And you got to have some money to take people out, you know, you'd have to have a couple grand to throw around to take people to dinners. And then you have to have references back in the States where people you know can look you up. I mean, this yeah, this is interesting. If there's ways that, you know, that I know people doing I all the time. But, you know, the old school still bugling up. I, you know, when I talk to people, I said, just Google my name. And that's my credentials. You know, I just Google Rod Robertson bricks Coppa. You'll see it right down the line, you know, can we talk. And but when I started I didn't have hardly anything to Google up you know. And so then what I did was I just made one page PDFs and and I would build my credentials with, with, with nice work and that works overseas. Gotcha. Like, like I was just in, I was just in Uzbekistan. I was following Genghis Khan's invasion path, and, I got sidetracked outbound by, not so far from Afghanistan that way. And I got into some trouble down there as my, my colleagues, departed and left me alone down there. And so, I mean, you always have friends at the embassy when you're going to a crazy place, even if you don't go to the embassy. Even if you go in, like, scuba diving in Belize or something. You should call the embassy. Get that number, and just be ready to dial up and say, who's the third attache? You know, you got to have someone's name. And then if you call in that embassy, I want to speak to know Bill Rogers. He knows I'm in-country. You got to have that hotline to the embassy. If you're you're trudging in, and the the river's less traveled. I've got one more question. Because I want to burn you out. Yeah. Dealing with someone on the other side of the table, like the cartel, for instance. And you have to, you know, that they're probably going to try to do some weird stuff in the deal. Yeah. And your intuitive that this is going to happen. How do you set the tone from the beginning, maybe in the first meeting or drop an anchor so that they are have a less chance of messing with you, you know, is there a power statement? You know, like like the cartel there in Mexico, they're they're 60% legitimate businesses. They own the supermarkets. The you know, they're part of the infrastructure like Hamas. The the cartel just has different names for triads. I mean, there's all these, you know, in Japan, they have it everywhere, where the underworld is like 65% now is legitimate business, you know, for the I want nothing to do. And, and I'm not overstating anything that I was dealing with the cartel because I wasn't. I just saw them from the car, from the bulletproof limo I was in that, they were there, and, but. And I don't know if they would ever get involved in that. It's, you know, part of the storytelling to to talk that part up. But, and I'm not even asking, like, specific to the cartel, I guess I'm the reason why I'm using them as an example is just like if you have someone on the other side of the table that, like, you need to set the tone and draw your line in the sand as like someone not to be messed with. Is there a pragmatic strategy to go about that? Like I would anchor in some sort of passive statement, that drops a little power and credential maybe. Yeah, yeah, I think you start in and, use all your skill set to get well, like, but you over and again I'm talking more overseas and in the States, you know, you got a name drop. You know, I have pictures of me with Bill Clinton or this or that or Jose and I were in trouble a couple of times. And he says, give me your phone and I'll just go to my Obama, my Clinton, my other. And he just shows them and, you know, you got to have a little bit of, you got to have some connections if you're going to roll with the, the, the big forces from nature overseas and they hold the United States in such high esteem and not in Boston, they've never been here, most of them. And they just watch the media. I mean, it's great. And if you can take all liberties of a relationship you will have with somebody to extend the influential person's reach into your world. My God, I've been accused of this many a time, so you can kind of bullshit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Well, that's all my questions. I appreciate you coming out. Thanks for. No, it's been big fun. I enjoy following your career. And, you know, I'm glad to be on the show and, you know, I'm looking forward to continuing my madcap life and, following yours and, anyone out there? Go get them. Don't take any prisoners. If there's anywhere like you know, or anyone that wants to reach out to you or, is interested in your services, where could they find you? Yeah, they can just go. Stay away. Yeah. You know, it's it's like it's, my books. Great. I've written three books. The new World of Entrepreneurship that I can take a look at it for starting in operating and how to fund a business and all that stuff. The blocking and tackling of of, of entrepreneurship and, but, yeah, they can always go to our website, Briggs capital.com poke around and if you have some, you know, something you want to share or something, you can drop me an email or, and I'll most likely respond if you're. You're not a nutcase. All right. Sounds good, I appreciate you. I'll come in. Take care. Yeah.

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