Shakin' Hands

Ep. 41 | Redefining Modern Connection - Justine Baruch

• Jack Moran • Season 1 • Episode 41

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Justine Baruch, a life, relationship, and executive coach, dives into masculine and feminine dynamics, attachment styles, and the biological and emotional factors that shape relationships. She shares strategies for improving communication, fostering intimacy, and navigating modern dating challenges, while also discussing her shift toward leadership coaching and personal growth.

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Welcome to Shakin’ Hands, where we provide the platform for entrepreneurs and thought leaders to share their stories in order to hopefully influence others to get out of the rat race and chase their own dreams. If you have any recommendations for guests or questions that you want to be asked, please don't hesitate to reach out. Anyways, if you enjoy the podcast, please like, comment, subscribe and share in order to keep the podcast growing. Otherwise, I'm your host, Jack Moran and this is Shakin’ Hands. I'm currently a life relationship and executive coach. My business is niche down into relationship, but I'm just about to close that brand and move more towards leadership. So the I'm kind of at my final hurrah for my relationship stuff, which I love and I've done for 20 years, in different kinds of modalities and I'm deeply passionate about it. But the enthusiasm has started to kind of go in a different direction here. Yeah. As entrepreneurs like our interests shift for sure. I mean, I've started so many businesses and projects where I like, pour my heart and soul, and I do it for a handful of years and then move on to the next. So is this next project the one you mentioned off air? When we were talking about the the link or whatever. No, that that's the that's the one I'm closing down just now. Okay. So my final hurrah. Let's step. Let's start with that. So yeah. So, I, I backstory like, I grew up as a tomboy and then also like had my activist and feminist stage. And then at one point I remember reading a book by OSHA where he spoke about how the feminine liberation movement is a bunch of bullshit, and that it's actually women oppressing themselves because they're demanding equality through their masculinity and not their femininity. And I didn't even know about masculine and feminine at that point. And so kind of caught me off guard. And I was like, oh, there's there's a point to this. And I have such a vivid memory of that moment. And that sort of started a whole exploration around what does it mean to be feminine. And I had so many questions because I saw descriptions of this in the religious settings, which felt pretty dogmatic and oppressive. And then I saw it in the tantra settings, which felt pretty fluffy. And I am a practical, grounded person. And so I wanted to understand how what does this look like in the modern world, where there is this thing of equality that's here, that this isn't going to be, sort of fluffy or oppressive in any way. And I went and started studying men and women on our brain structure, on our hormones, and how all of these things are impacting us and how we show up and how we relate. And so I've created courses to understand one for men, one for women. My first initially did the women because I was speaking to people like me who are kind of women that are strong and they're masculine go getters. And, you know, we might unintentionally be emasculating our men. And it was a whole journey for me that shifted everything in my life how I show up as a coach, as a teacher, as a partner. And I wanted to lead other women down that same path. And so just becoming aware of the ways that we are unintentionally or sometimes intentionally emasculating our men and the impact that that's having, like on a biological level. And then after I created the women's program, I was like, well, I just kind of contributed to the very problem I'm trying to solve, because now women have this information of how to handle a relationship, and they go to their partner and they're like, here's what you need to do. And I was like, nah. So then I decided to run a men's program, and I thought I would just be able to flip the information around and be like, okay, guys, well, here's how your biology works. Here's how her biology works. And no, I that was not the case. Like as I went into it, I'm really cautious around my own blind spots because of being a woman. And I think a lot of therapists and coach and mothers and wives and well-intentioned women are out there giving advice to men based on what works for women, especially around their emotions and how they should handle their emotions and communication and all of this stuff. And so I had to do a lot more research, like as research, by talking to men and talking to clients, and also like in the books of just really understanding them beyond my own biases. And so then I crafted the men's program, and I think they also need different tools to be able to hold the space in a relationship, in their masculinity, and how to help the woman get into their feminine so that that program ended up being something completely different than I thought it was going to be when I started it. Yeah. And it's like, this is something that I'm actually really interested in. And it's crazy because, like, there isn't like a, an insane historical log on the like behavior of a or the breakdown of a woman, because a lot of times it was written by a man. Yeah. Until like the 19th century. Right. Is that correct? Like when, you know, people like Anais Nin started, like, writing, you know, up about the sexualization and, like, through the female's eyes, which was, like, groundbreaking. Yeah. So it's like a it's a difficult thing to study. What are the, like, key components that you have, like differentiated between men and women? What are those like? Well, first it so I speak in the generalization. And as a disclaimer for that because I'll go a lot into the brain structure, which is not black and white, you know, especially the way that we're evolving, like, I'm going to be developing parts of my brain that are going to resemble more of like a masculine brain, and vice versa. And so more I present these are the two different temperaments and figure out which one works for you because there's some relationships where the woman might fit more into the masculine tendencies and man might fit more into the feminine, especially if she's dismissive, avoidant, and he's anxious. Then I noticed those patterns play out more there. But I would say like a big one that has been really helpful for people to understand is around the how we handle emotions differently. So in our, our brain, we have two centers. Both of us have it. So we have the mass the mirror neuron system and the tpjc, the temporal parietal junction system, a bit of a mouthful. And I or women generally will default to the M's, which means we feel our emotions, the empathy of it. That's why we want to also want to talk around our emotions, which is also another thing that I'll speak to. And men will more use the tpjc, which means they're going to analyze their emotions. So men will want to talk about a problem if they're ready to fix it. Whereas like we'll talk about a problem as a way to connect, as a way to de-stress. And that's also where we'll be like, hey, you're feeling really emotional. Why don't you talk about it? And to talk about it just to share is going to increase your oxytocin and estrogen. It's not going to make you feel better because if your cortisol is high, those hormones don't bring it down. In order to bring your cortisol down, you need testosterone to go to go higher or to go higher. And that will bring your cortisol down. Whereas in my body, cortisol is going to come down with my oxytocin and my estrogen goes up. So if I talk and you listen, then I'm going to feel really good. And so that hormonal shift is going to happen. But also where we're using my mouse, I'm getting the talk and there's empathy and there's feeling. And so I'm processing my emotions. So men however come in and they're like well let's just break it down. Like what's the problem here? Let's solve it. You know, the whole thing of like, men always want to fix the problem and they're not listening. Well, that's because that works for them and they have a hard time understanding. Like, how is it going? How are you going to feel better if you just talk about your problem and you don't solve it? Or like there's a really easy solution here. And so with men, I'm always like guys feelings first, facts later, like first empathize, build the bridge, help her to regulate just by talking and feeling heard. Then she's going to have, hormonal balance. Where then she might be able to better hear the the and the analysis or the solution at that point. And I've definitely dealt with that in relationships, like taking that very like concrete sequential like pragmatic, pragmatic, approach to like hearing feelings, which isn't received really well. You know, like, like going through the like, okay, well psychologically like blah blah blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, you're just an asshole. Which I'm not trying to be, but it's interesting that you're saying this because, like, it's it's just like my tendency like I'm taking like a pragmatic approach. How do you see like and so I know you talked about there's like the masculine and the feminine. So can men lean more feminine and then women lean more masculine on some of these situations. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I would say more I the biggest way that I can predict that is around attachment styles. Are you familiar with the cells. So there's this thing called attachment style theory and there's anxious and dismissive. There's one in between that's kind of a combination of the two. And then there's secure, attached and dismissive people are more cut from their emotions and their own emotions and the other person's emotions, they're more creature comforts, like the and anxious people are really for the the contact. They're not really great at self-soothing. They often need their partner to help them to soothe. So like, if we were in a relationship and I was anxious and you were dismissive and we have a fight like, I'm going to want to talk and you're going to probably want some space. So that's just one scenario of where that shows up. But I have seen when the woman is dismissive, she has more masculine tendencies. In regards to what I'm talking about here. So how do you like resolve those if you have two polarizing personalities? Someone that's winning extreme. Oh, woman that's leaning extremely feminine and a man that's leaning extremely masculine. How do you, have a relationship? You know, like, how do you smooth out those that polarity. You take my course or go. No, but I think because so often our our differences, we because we're different, we misinterpret each other. So when you act a certain way, then I'm like, well, if I did that, this is what I would be thinking and feeling if I acted that way. So then I project those interpretations onto you. And I have found when women can and then vice versa can start to understand. And this is why I like the biology behind it, because we get to address the misunderstandings and the misinterpretations. And when people have an understanding, this is how men function. This is how women function. They stop judging it. They start because they now understand it, so they accept it and they even honor it. And then it becomes this beautiful dance between the masculine and feminine, because you understand how each person works, either how they process their emotions, how they process stress, how they communicate, why they do it that way. And we quit judging each other. So we quit judging women for being too emotional or rational or for men being uncommunicative or all about sex or these kinds of things like, I'll take this and I'll go into emotions. I go into communication, I go into sex and intimacy. What makes us feel connected? So I break it down in all of these different areas. Sometimes it fits men, woman, but sometimes it's a reverse polarity. It still just helps to understand the other and accept it. And work with it. Is this most of the time used in like a sexual romantic relationship, or could it also be used in like a business sense when you have a all of it? Yeah, I love that you ask that question. I had one man go through my program and he was like, not only do I feel better in the dating world, and because I have singles and couples come through my programs, but he was also my relationship with my housemate, who is a woman, my cousin, my grandmother, my mother. I had one woman go through it and she was like, I feel like I just healed my relationship to the masculine for her previous relationships, for her father, stuff from her childhood because she understands him from another perspective now. And I've definitely felt that for myself as well in this, because there's certain interpretations that I put on to my childhood or to my present day interactions, and it has healed that. I also have had people use this in the work context. I work with a lot of CEOs or senior executives, and when they start to understand their team better, then it has helped them to be able to how to relate to them, how to communicate to them in a way that's more effective. And so in the beginning, you talked about like kind of awareness being the first step, which you gave some of the science behind what's going on. What is like the next step to like change, like what is the practice that leads to like, change in results in a smoothed out relationship between two polarizing personalities? Okay. Well, let's say so. Some practices at the end of the day, let's say, you know, I have the stress of the day. You have the stress of the day when you come home. I generally recommend that men take kind of a transition period, and I recommend this for women, too, if they've really been in their masculine to be able to get into their feminine. But it's going to look a little different. Interesting. And so when a man comes home, he's kind of depleted. And then he goes straight into she wants to talk, she wants to connect. And he's just like, oh my God. And he's either like not focused, not paying attention, not patient, not empathetic. Like she's not going to get his best self. This is resonating with me for sure. Okay. Great. Because I have experiences okay. So I then recommend the guy takes ten 20 minutes, whatever the time schedule allows, you know, whether like dinner is going on the table or the kids are needing help or whatever it is. So take ten minutes, take 20 minutes, go do your thing, whatever revives you. So whether that's reading a book, going on a walk, just sitting and doing nothing, or playing a video game and then come back and connect. And ideally when you first come home, you go and you connect to your woman, so you get a moment of contact and you say, hey, I'm going to just go do my, my ten minute period or whatever. And then you come back and you make that contact. So she you're getting what your body needs. And again, sometimes it's switched like I've also worked with gay couples. And there's still a masculine feminine dynamic that this is also applied to. And then for the woman like because her stress levels are there, she's probably going to get contact your communication. So you're like, hey, tell me about your day. And so you get her to talk about her day and especially the emotional content of it, and just get her talking, because it's kind of like the words that come out, the stresses, like literally coming out and you're just sitting there holding a trash can and catching it. And so that's going to help her to feel better, and that's going to help her to feel connected. What about like this sounds like it's like in like an established relationship. What about like when you're dating or like making a connection with someone from the beginning, from both sides, from the female side and from the masculine side. Like, what are the kind of key concepts of connecting in those early stages? Are that the same or is it different? At the very early stages, because they're, you're you're you're just getting to know each other. Are we talking like first couple of dates? Yeah. Like even like approaching and approaching. I mean, that's that's tough in the modern world too, because I, I still love it, like when a man approaches and takes that initiative. But I think that women have not made that we've made it a lot harder. We're a lot more harsh and judgmental, like in talking to guys in the dating world. They're like, you know, one woman wants dinner, another woman wants drinks, another woman wants coffee, and another one's walk. And if you suggest one of those, not the other, then you get in trouble. So it's kind of like every woman is so different around what she wants and what's acceptable and not acceptable for her. And women are sometimes like penalizing men and shaming them like, no, I'm not going to out for drinks with you. I don't even know you. Like, let's do coffee. And it's like, you know, just give a day for effort. If you could. So, I think that, like, sometimes women aren't understanding the vulnerability that men are in, one and taking an initiative and two, just like what it's like to be a man right now in modern day, I think that there's not so much of an understanding or not. Maybe, you know, maybe there is. But I think that we could do a lot better of instead of complaining about, I want a man in his masculine of understanding that in order to get that, you need to be in your feminine. So when I hear women be like, there's no conscious men around, I'm like, well, if you are saying that, then there's something also to be looking at because we attract the people that are in resonance of us. So if you're not attracting conscious men, then you know what's going on for you, because there's sometimes women are blind to their own aspects of how they're not in their feminine. And a lot of women are trying to get men into their masculine by being in their masculine. Like, I'm going to tell you what to do and how to be in your pursuing. That is never going to it to work effectively. What does that actually look like? That like what? What are the characteristics or patterns that, a woman would, would be doing that is putting her in her masculine, so constantly being in do mode, taking the lead, having a lack of patience, criticizing the, the lead, expecting mind reading and then, when the men takes an action, be like, why would you do that? Or also even just to be like, hey, you're the man. Take initiative like you decide and start to criticize in a very sharp, direct way. I think that there's a much more gentle and feminine way to approach these things. Okay, so like taking the lead, for instance, you know, I feel like some girls would argue like, you know, they want to be that doer. Are you just saying that? Like, if you want to attract the masculine, then you have to retreat into this or to be more feminine. Or do you think just all women are better off being more feminine? I think it's going to be a personal preference for how somebody wants to be, what their outcomes they want, and what they, and also the kind of relationship that they want. Like I'm a woman that has a very strong masculine, I'm very ambitious. Like I get shit. Donna, I, you know, I'm a doer. But I also want to be mindful of the kind of relationship that I want. I don't want to be in my masculine and, like, making all of the decisions in the relationship. And I move really fast and I think really quick. So I need to slow down and create space if I want my man to feel, to take the lead. And so also because women can sometimes multiple tasks switch from task to task easier could give you the whole brain science behind it if you want to go ahead. This is very interesting. So I really like the psychological stuff. So yeah. Well I mean we we have a larger corpus callosum. So we can more easily connect between the two hemispheres or communicate between the two hemispheres of our brain. Women can women can. We also have more dopamine and a couple of other qualities of our brain that allow us to be able to do that. And so, like there was one time I was at the airport with my partner and we needed to take care of a couple of things, and we wanted to get some food. We wanted to build a toilet. We wanted to do something with the baggage. We wanted to go to a shop and I'm running through going like, okay, do it. And he was just kind of chasing after me, trying to keep up with me. And he's like, this is so emasculating right now. Like, I'm just like trying to keep up with my woman. Whereas, like, I just needed to breathe and slow down. And then he would have been able to, like, more, take the lead or not just feel like he was trying to keep up with me. And sometimes because our brain might function a little bit quicker and not all the time, like sometimes the roles are reversed. I've definitely worked with couples where men are more at how I just described in the woman's in a different temperament. If the woman is like this, slow down, create space. Ask questions, get curious, give the man the information he needs to succeed. So that's another big thing. And also in the dating, like so often I think men fail, whether it's in dating or relationship, just due to lack of good information. Do you think that there is a time where or how do I phrase this? Is the result of the conflict ever that you're just with a bad partner? Do you think that there's like, always a common ground that you could find to make a relationship work? No, I don't think that you should make every relationship work. For me, the success of the relationship is not necessarily staying together in longevity. I just ended a 13 year relationship. That was a good relationship. But I had changed. We did. We were quite different. We learned a lot. We grew a lot from our differences, our differences. We made them a work in such a way where they enhanced each other. And then also, I think the best thing for us to do this was a year ago or so that was to go separate way, is just to acknowledge, like if we were to continue to make this work, we would both be compromising. And I didn't want him to compromise, and I didn't want me to compromise to the extent that we would to be able to have a really fulfilling relationship. And so I'm not necessarily going to say bad, that there's a person that is bad because that you called that person in for your subconscious calls them in quite often because it wants to heal something and there's a partnership there that can you can grow from. Now, depending upon the level of woundedness you will experience a level of toxicity or not. But somebody might just not be a good fit for you. But what I like to try to encourage people to do and give them the tools is, why did I call this person in? How can I grow? What can I learn? How can I be a better partner here to put those things into practice? And if your partner doesn't match you and continue to put those same kind of efforts towards healing the relationship and each of your temperaments, then to say, like, hey, this isn't working and to go our separate ways. And if that's the case, you've done all of this work to heal and change that. The next relationship you call in is already going to be at another level. And that you at that level. So no, nothing's lost. There's no time wasted because you healed and then you called in something better the next time. What about for someone who's like, I don't even know what I'm looking for? Like, how do you define a good partner or, like, set those boxes that you want to check? Yeah. You're looking for a partner. I have a couple exercises that I do with people for this. One is what I call the five non-negotiables. So I'm like, what are five things that you think your partner must have in order for you to want to be in relationship with? And you can only have five. So it helps people to get in touch with what's most important. I'll also do a values exercise of where I have them list out their top ten relationship values, and then I work with them in that in a certain way. And another exercise is I'll be like, okay, what is it that you want in a partner? And this can be as long of a list. And sometimes a lot of people are oriented towards what they don't want. So they're like, well, I don't want somebody who does this, this, this or this. So then I have them write that on a piece of paper on the left hand side and then, okay, what's the opposite of that? What's the positive side of that? And so then they start to make that list because you want to speak to what you want, not what you don't want. Right. And once they have that list, then I have them go and sit with a friend or somebody or me if we're in a session together. And then I go, how well do you match this? So you want somebody who's emotionally intelligent. Where is your emotional intelligence? Where do you lose your composure? How do you handle your emotions? How do you handle yourself when there's conflict? And so we start to look at that because there's times where people will project onto their partner. Like, I want somebody who's productive, who saves a day, who goes out and get it, and then, you know, they're hitting snooze ten times and not following through with their own to self. So it's like you're going to call somebody and that's going to match you. And if you've had five men that have the same pattern, the man is not the man is not the problem. You're the common thread. So change yourself and then the people coming into your life are going to change. So if someone like so you want someone that matches you, you will get somebody that matches your work. Gotcha. So then to find so you have to it's all start with kind of like changing yourself. If you want to change the way your partners are. Yeah. Do you want to change anything that anything that you want to change in your life, whatever's coming to you, you are the common thread here. I think that we're like this magnet and we're pulling people in. A lot of it is unconscious. It's emotions that we've oppressed, it's core beliefs that we took on when we were two, 3 or 4 years old that we don't even know that we have. But we can see that we have them because of what's happening in our life. Whatever it is, whether it's with your work or it's with the relationship, it's with friends. Whatever patterns are playing out, young blame the outside and try to control the outside, which is I mean, again, a lot of people do it. It's not effective. Exactly. Yeah. And you kind of use people like as like a mirror almost to like, define yourself. Yeah. It's like you're right. It's like an external representation of yourself and you're going to see the things inside them that you see in yourself. Yeah. So how so when you talked in the beginning about the, or before we got on the podcast about this psych program that you're doing that is now the going to be the end of the relationship business. What is that program? So I'm first going to run a free challenge just for couples to come in to the ignite, ignite love. So we're going to go through just the different temperaments that are out there, around emotions, around communication, around intimacy and connection. So I'm going to be putting out some videos there and then just do like a live Q&A. And then for I'll following that, I mean, my women's program, which is I mean, initially I designed it for women that are more in their masculine and how to get more into their femininity and really honor and respect and uplift their man and their masculine. But I've also had women come through it who were really in their feminine kind of more emotional and more chaotic, because in my in my coaching, I bring a lot of tools. So I'm a very practical person. Like I have a therapeutic and coaching background, which can be really helpful in doing some of the deeper work and deeper healing that's needed. As you can hear, I'm always like going in because it's it's resonating here of what it is that you're calling in. So like there was one woman who her relationship, they had just press pause because he's like, your emotions are way too chaotic. Like, I can't be responsible for all of this. And, she went through the program and she learned the tools on how to get clarity around what she was feeling, why she was feeling it, and how to work on it instead of always projecting it onto him and then making him responsible for her to, to feel better. And in that, she also just really learned about how to honor him and his masculinity and they got back together by the end of the program. So it really can speak to to both. And I have singles and couples that come through it. So the that's the women's one, and then the men's program is kind of the reverse side of like how to be in your mask and also how to support your woman to be in your feminine, which a lot need, you know, like there's so many women that are are more in their masculine now for various reasons and the relationship dynamics often perpetuate it. And so for a man to really understand how to support his woman in getting her into her feminine is some of what's there. And then I also have over a decade, in my background around teaching sacred sexuality. So I'll bring some of that in, especially into the men's program. I bring a lot of, you know, Kamasutra or something like that. I mean, I don't go into Kamasutra there, but I have studied things of the Kamasutra, the comments, which is a lot more of like sexual positions and things like that. But I will teach about, opening up our sexual energy and being able to channel it and work with it. So for women, it can be opening up to different kinds of orgasms. So a lot of women, if they do orgasm, they only orgasm from the clitoris, which is great, but there's so much more pleasure that is available. And that orgasm very much mimics a masculine orgasm, like more of like in a jocular and, and in both of those we're losing energy. And if people can learn how to maintain their sexual energy and to move it, there is just powerful. So much. Yeah, so much power for every aspect of your life. Like I physically have seen people change when they start to access their sexual energy and maintain it and contain it and move it in different ways. Their physical appearance changes, their work changes. Like just everything in their life. Probably aura changes a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I speak about some of those things in my programs. Like I don't really lead with a sacred sexuality stuff, but it's always a tool that I have in my back pocket when needed. So not to go on too much of a tangent, but how do you. That's very interesting to me, because this is something that's been an intellectual pursuit for me recently. How do you not release that energy in a sexual, you know, encounter and, and, and fuel that energy? Yeah. Continue to utilize it. For men and women. It's a little bit different. For men, it's learning to not ejaculate. And so for men, that's the answer. That's part of the answer. Yeah. Or to ejaculate less like how to control the ejaculate. And you know, the orgasm comes before the ejaculation, but it's only a couple seconds before. So most people think that it comes together like an ejaculation is an orgasm. And that's not the case. Interest I, I don't know that. So it's men, you know, like a boxer. A boxer learns to when a fist is coming on his face to not blink. Most of us are going to blink. So a man in this training learns when he has the orgasm to not have the reflex of ejaculate. So he learns to separate the two, just like the boxer learns to not blink when there's a fist coming on his face. Is that like an exercise that you learn how to do that? Or there's that seems like he has to be pretty strong right now to have that. I, I've heard it's different. I can't imagine that it might be different you, but I've also met men that do it intuitively because they feel the exhaustion that happens. They feel the depletion that happens for sure. And they don't want that and that because they can feel the disconnect that it causes from their partner, you know, they fall asleep and then are likely to fall asleep afterwards anyways, because in making love there's an increase of oxytocin. And that makes you guys sleepy. Yeah, it sure is. But so that could be there anyways. But in regards to the, the, the non ejaculation. Yeah, there's, there's a handful of different techniques to practice. There's some in the tantra around. There's some of the Daoist realm. So there's different paths where you can learn to do it as well. And you know I know some men that don't ejaculate at all, and I know others that will choose to do it maybe once or twice a month. And they just feels so much more vital. Their mind feels more sharp, they feel more creative. They've got more energy, like there's a whole lot more ambition for everything. And it's funny because we were literally having this conversation before the podcast today, and it's like crazy that you I always say like sex is the worst part because it's like you build up all this like dopamine and this like you have this like energy when you're pursuing a girl. And then the second, like you said, you ejaculate like you lose all of that energy and it's like you go, it's very unfulfilling. So it's it's interesting that you say that, that because that was just like an intuitive thought for me. I didn't know that that was an actual thing. Yeah. I mean, there's several hormonal things that are happening to, like if a woman and I wish it was it this way, I feel like God really did not, design things so well on this, whoever God is. But like, if if a woman goes into sex too soon, decreases the vast suppressant and man. And vasopressin is a very similar hormone. Does this often, and it can, it has vasopressin is it can influence the level of attraction and interest that he has. So there is something to to holding out even just like on a hormonal level. Wow, that is so interesting. That one laying we got to arouse. No, that's that's crazy. Like I did not know it makes sense. Yeah. Like that's definitely like something that consciously happens as a guy like, but I didn't know that there was like a hormonal science behind that. Yeah. And then you add ejaculation on top of that. Yeah. But I mean, but even without the ejaculation like that will often happen in non ejaculating men as well. Not as much. The ejaculation will will amplify it. So this all this information is going to be a course that's available at some point in time soon. Yeah. I'm, it's actually the last time I'm going to run it. So I'm gonna run my women's program in the, my men's program, and then I'm retiring that part of my business to move on to something different. And so this is like a lot of that's in there, especially in the men's program. And then they have live group coaching calls with me. And we also have a platform where they ask questions. So, so much more comes out there through the questions and the nuances of everything that people are asking. Like, I mean, I've run tons of workshops, around the sacred sexuality stuff, so I have a lot of information there. I packed as much as I could into into the training around the women's orgasms, around the ejaculation and control around the differences between the masculine, feminine type of sexuality. As well, because I think there's some things there that, you know, to give you an example, like a lot of and again, just generalized differences, I really encourage people as they go through the program to like figure out, does this work for you? Is this how you function? And then if so, communicate it to your partner. And that's especially helpful for men because sometimes like they are that way, but they don't necessarily have the words to wrap around it and communicate it. So that so often when men go to my program, they're like, oh my God, this is making so much sense. Kind of like how you're you're like, yes, I can't wait to go tell my partner this. And so I'm enlightened now, just like giving you guys the words to understand so that you can, translate that to, to your partner. But the one example of just like around feminine, masculine, different types of sexuality is like women, our bodies are going to be so good. The more that you build the oxytocin, the more oxytocin we have in our body, the more pleasure we're going to have, the better orgasms we're going to have. But in order to build oxytocin, you need to like sexual touch without an agenda or in just like to tease. And so like don't go straight for the erogenous zones and which so many men will they'll go straight to the breast, will go straight to the pussy. And it really what you want to do with the woman's body quite often is to like, tease and warm it up. Whereas like there was one time where I was doing that to my partner, I was just like teasing him. And I just, like, brushed my hand over. He grabbed my hand and he like, put it on. And he's like, just stay. I was like, oh my God, this is that moment. This is a moment where I'm doing to you what I want on my body. That's hilarious. And I was like, oh, wow. I mean, I love getting to see those moments where I'm like, treating him how I want to be treated. And it is so not what he wants. Yeah. And so for anyone who's listening to this, we're going to link like the, the put the link up for that program. And I might even utilize like, oh my give you that official in my life. But what are you. So you said now you're transitioning into, like, a more of a leadership coaching, role, is that correct? Yeah, it's it's looking like that. What's the reason for that transition? Just a new intellectual pursuit or, you're bored with the last one or what inspired it? Following the signs of the universe? Sometimes I sound like I'm woohoo, but I feel like I'm woo. I'm a very. It's a little woo, just a little woo. Just a touch. And that's going to come out right now when I answer this. So that's why I need to just put a little bit of disclaimer out there. Wait, a lot of my clients are, are CEOs or senior executives or business owners and so many of them this year in particular, had been pointing me of like, Justine, you should go into corporate, you should go work with small business, start a businesses and such. And, then I putting that aside, be like, oh, you know, I'm good at this. I like what I do here. Like, I haven't worked in corporate. I don't really feel like I belong there necessarily. I know that I'm effective in it. With the people that I have worked with and that I have helped them in those dynamics. But I wasn't so sure about meeting a business down in that direction. And I had crafted a whole new project. I was about to launch it. I put a ton of time into it. I was super excited around it. And then I met this woman who does human design. Have you ever heard of it? Last episode we talked about human design. Okay, great. So I'm very new to this and she did human design for entrepreneurs. And she will look at your chart and she'll say what you meant to do, who you're meant to serve, how you're meant to serve them. What is your message. And she knew the whole direction that I was about to go. And so I was like, I've done so many businesses and so many projects. I was like, and then, you know, I, I retire them after 2 to 4 years. So I was like, before I take this next colossal effort, which will take me a couple of years to create and get going. I want to just, you know, check on site, have somebody look at it from the outside and see if it's aligned. So I thought it was perfect timing. At the end of the session, she said, Justine, your heart's in the right place with this project that you're meant to do or you want to do, but it is not what you're meant to do. And I was like, oh, okay. She's like, you're not meant to have a community. You're meant to work with people who have communities and companies and you're not. I was going to work with you like your Suburbian couple. And she was like, you're not meant to. You're meant to work with leaders, which are all my clients anyways. It's already the work that I'm doing. But she was like, so she that got me going. And then there were just several synchronicities that, that follow that, and a lot of stuff is pointing me in that direction. So I'm going to finish down this part of my business and then start getting creative and, and another one. So what are the pain points that you're solving? With this new business, what are you identifying as an ideal client profile? What problem? Generally, I have people coming to me who have a lot of wealth and success in their life, but something feels like it's missing. And so then it's like taking wealth and making it and turn it into prosperity and prosperity in all aspects of life, and making life more fulfilling and more aligned so that they're just not going through the motions. And it's not just about making money, but then like, why are you doing this? So making life more meaningful and more purposeful and more well-rounded as well. And it's very difficult. Like, I can relate to this. Like I've never really been motivated by money. It's not like one of my values that is like a motivator for me, although it's like it's no different. Money is no different to me than a screwdriver. Like it's a tool. Yeah. But a screwdriver is not going to make me happy. Nor is money. But it can be difficult to define what what will make me happy. That has been a, you know, a difficult pursuit for me because it's. It it's almost impossible to kind of just to determine and define what is the meaning of life. And you get down these intellectual pursuits and you think about ethics and it's like, what is good and bad? Is there a universal, you know, good and bad, or is this something that I'm just defining? And then you get down these like you're internally generating your external reality? And so if I can generate anything, and accomplish anything, then what goal do I want to set and where do I want to spend my time? If time is finite? So there's a lot of these questions that can be difficult to find the answer. So I'd be curious to hear from you. Like what, you would say would be a good, for my own personal interest. Oh, a good place, a good place to start on those things. I mean, there's a couple things that you just said that I love to just a dive into conversation. Like you're like, if time is finite. Because that's a fun conversation to have as well. For me, I always love starting with values. So I, I will take the different aspects of my life and I will elicit what are my values. So what am I? What are my top values and my relationship with my top values in my health and family? In my work. So sometimes I will break those down into different quadrants and sometimes I will just do overall, like right now, what is the most important thing for me in my life? And I have a phenomenal values exercise. Like, let's do it. I'm ready. I mean, if I might take a bit more of a moment, but you, you list out your top ten, okay? And then you put them in order of priority. And after that, this is my favorite part about it. And this is where sometimes the magic happens. Sometimes people like what they think is their priority is their priority at least 50% of the time, if not 70% of the time. When we do this, checks and balance, things change. And what it is is you take the number ten and you look at does this one does number ten support number nine, does number nine support number eight. And if it doesn't then you rearrange it. And so so that the one below supports the one above. And quite often something that's lower down sometimes even moves up to the oh that's very interesting. It is so fascinating watching this happen like I would I've done it for myself. I'm like, wow, when I've done it for other people, I'll do it in relationships as well. So values as our values are such a close part of our identity. And this is what's determining everything else our thoughts, our emotions, our actions, everything comes from there. And also our values are our guiding light and our values shift depending upon the different phase that we're going through in life. Like there's studies out there. You know, a man in his 20s is going to have these values of birth, his 30s, in his 40s and, you know, different for a woman. And so taking time to check in with your values when you're trying to figure out what's most important for you now, like, what are you feeling ambitious about now at this point, what's most important for you? What do you want to pour your time and energy into? What's going to light you up? Because it's going to be different ten years from now. And so I think values is one place to to look at. And I think it can be helpful, especially if you're trying to figure out what's most important to break it down into those different areas and to do the values exercise for each one of them and then pull them together. And I've tried to like in my own, you know, and for me personally, I've tried to define it like very broadly to at least get a direction, you know, like a direction to head towards. And it's like for me, it's like, okay, I want to my highest value is like, I want to have a positive impact. So that at least gives me a direction that it's like, how do I execute a positive impact? Like how do I have the biggest positive impact that is fulfilling my highest potential? Yeah, that can be a more difficult question. But I mean, after I had this human design rating and what came out of that, I then geeked out. I went to ChatGPT. Okay, I, I uploaded my chart by a human design chart there, and I was like, well, wait a minute. If all this information is coming from human design, I was like, what if I throw astrology in there? So then I was like, okay. I also want you to act as a Vedic astrologer or a Western astrologer. And I was like, what other modalities could I use? So I asked ChatGPT and it's like numerology and jinkies, I don't know anything about these things. So I was like, okay, what information do you need for me? And then I just started asking ChatGPT and I put together a little mini masterclass just because, out of sheer enthusiasm of what I was, I had this like, beautiful love affair with ChatGPT for like a week, but it's like I, I loaded up all that information at a ChatGPT and then I just started asking questions like, what is my mission? What is my purpose? What is the message? I meant to deliver? And there are specific questions around the different modalities, like for human design, it's your incarnation cross and sometimes like to deal with the mercury or things like that. So I just got super excited around all this. I put it in a PDF, and I made a class on it so that people could go and repeat it, and I repeated it with some friends and clients, and it was so fascinating. There was a woman who was helping me. This wasn't her, her job, but I was trying to learn storytelling. And so she's like, oh, I'm pretty good at that. I can help you with it. And then when I did this whole process with ChatGPT and uploading the charts there for her incarnation, cross, like one of her main things that she has meant to do is to help people through storytelling. Like it said it verbatim and it was like, bam, this is your life mission. Wow. And and she the first time we worked together, I was like, you know, what is it that you want to do? She's like, well, my ideal in my stretch would be to help entrepreneurs find their stories and tell them. And I was like, why is that a stretch? You're phenomenal at it. And then a week later we did this process and that was there. So when and when I went into it, you know, part of the things that came up in my human design one was to help people to revel in the intensity of desire and emotion. So I taught sacred sexuality for over a decade, and I help people a lot with their emotions. And I'm like, well, that's been the last 20 years of my life. And so I think that there I have found a lot of help. And the paid version of chat to free to, like definitely gives a lot more clarity. But of going and looking at these things, like, there's so much information there around what we're meant to do and we're meant to do it. You know, I've also gone to Vedic astrologers. I like that more than Western, where, you know, somebody had just gotten, laid off or fired or they quit and they were trying to decide, should I go find another job? This is one of my clients, or should I start my own business? And the strategy said, do not start your own business for the next year and a half. Wait till August. After that, you can do it. If you try to do it beforehand, you're not going to be successful. And that's exactly what ended up happening. So I believe in like a lot of woo stuff. But but I'm also very pragmatic. So I have to get to it through a pragmatic approach. And I find that a lot of like, like woo philosophies are more pragmatic and rational than, their predecessors or like, things that are widely accepted as pragmatic. But as far as like human design and astrology, I have not cross that bridge yet. And I'd be interested to hear from you. Someone who you so, you know, you take a pragmatic approach as well, how you came to like believing in those things like, like I don't know anything about it. Well, I lived in India for, around a decade on and off. I had a center there, so I would run it during high season. My wife had teachers run it for me the rest of the time, and there was a Vedic astrologer that I've worked with now since 2005. What's Vedic is that just like an eastern? Yeah, like eastern astrology. So there's Western astrology, which is more kind of personality stuff. I've very limited knowledge of astrology. I pay people, so like you're about to get all that I know. Okay. No Vedic astrology I feel, deals more with our karma. So like what? What is the past? What is your future like? And then I find it really helpful in navigating certain aspects of my business as well. Like there's one time when I had a horrible season, with my center in India, and I was like, what? What's going on? Like, we've done so well, what what happened this time? And I was just casually talking with my astrologer and he was like, what time did you open the school this year? Because the whole town's closed for monsoon season. And I was like, oh, you know, September 8th. And he is like, went and looked it up and he's like, well, that's why anything that starts on this date at this point would have failed. So now whenever I go to run a program, I'm always checking my dates or I'm going to open something or, you know, if I was to buy a house, buy land, start a build. So any get married, like all of those things, big things I always check the dates on because I have seen that. That makes a difference. Why is that info? And saying like, you're going to have to get an astrologer on your podcast to answer that. Okay, I pay them to answer those questions for me. Okay. And there's reasons behind it. Okay. I know a little bit, because I know some just so I can go make some calculations on my own, but otherwise I get a session for them to calculate things for me. Yeah, that's what I would like to understand is like, what do they consider to be the lag mechanisms behind why a date correlates to or a moon phase correlates to an outcome? Oh, they're going to answer with all kinds of vocabulary that means nothing to you. Okay. Like I mean, I don't know, like, I, I know nothing, but they're the inner chakra or Dasha or, I don't know, there's, there's terms out there that they have that are part of the astrology science, that there of things that they're looking at. Do you think it's a gap in language why there's like, do you think it's kind of lost in translation, like, like articulating that from, you know, an Indian language? No, I think I just don't know those words. Gotcha. Okay. But I know the point of them, okay? And I know what to look at for certain things. I just don't remember the terms. Okay, so now I think some astrologers will be like, oh, you're something. Your seventh house is conjunct here. I don't know, there's all these kinds of words in there and I don't know what that means, but I hear and that means this. Okay. And I had, you know, when I was in India, I would often get 20 to 50 readings done a season for people because I just loved this guy so much. And he's a 20th generation astrologer. So I learned so much about what's in the charts and about people's karma and what's impacting them, whether it's their health or their relationships or their finances or their work or anything. And I just learned so much through that. So I'm a very strong believer in astrology, especially Vedic astrology. I'm not for like, oh, I'm on Aquarian. Let me look up for what an Aquarian is. And in, magazine and see what my for my what a fortune is. Fortune is where the for the week or for the month, because there's so much more to a chart that needs to be taken into considered interesting. Yeah. I know this is not a rabbit hole that I've entered yet, but you might have just opened the floodgates. Oh, I will have like yeah. So if anybody else is listening, do you want recommendations of good astrologers like I researched these people a lot and I I'll, I'll go in and have readings with anybody just to like get an experience of them. So I've got my favorites so I'll definitely recommend them. Yeah. Sweet and not the animal. Have you like plug all your stuff. So if anyone wants to let you off they can through this and I only have a couple of questions left. But through this, like, kind of entrepreneurial journey, what do you think is the biggest lesson that you've learned? So something that you know now that you didn't know when you started, that you wish you knew when you started, or like one piece of advice that you could give to the common man that would be beneficial to their life, the common man or to entrepreneur. Let's start with the common man and then moved to entrepreneur. So I'll ask both because this is a lot of your, knowledge is, I think, applicable to all people. So is it to. Yeah. One, I would say I've been somebody who's just always gone after what I wanted. I've never had a job that I didn't like. And I think and I've, I've designed a life that has created the freedom to be able to do that. And so I would say to take the time to pause and figure out what it is that you want, what makes you happy, and to take the time to pause later on ten years down the line. If that still makes you happy, and to not be afraid to make commitments and choices. Because sometimes people are like, oh, but I don't know if I'm going to like this, or maybe that's going to be a wrong decision. Just act. Action is better than inaction. Progress over perfection. And so figure out what lights you up, go into it, and then know that you can always shift gears. And if you're not good at shifting gears, then go get support to be able to do that, because that's the whole thing that I work with people on. Are you good at starting stuff? Are you good at changing? Are you good at finishing? Where what are you not good at? And then we look at why. So there's like some temperaments and stuff behind that that we can dig into. And so sometimes people don't commit don't, don't jump all in because they're afraid that they're, they're making the wrong choice or it's not possible. And it is possible they you can make the things happen that you want to have happen. And I think whether that's not how it was done in your family, you don't see people around you doing it. Then go watch movies of people doing it, you know, go watch what is on what Will Smith or unhappy in the Pursuit of Happiness. Such a great movie. You know, like, I love movies like that. The truth that are also based on the true story. Just like triumph over adversity. Yeah. What lights you up and then go for it and just make it happen? And what does it look like to commit? And to do that you also need to look at like, what are the fears behind it? And also to know that imposter syndrome is part of the process. If you're not experiencing imposter syndrome, you're probably not even pushing yourself. Not and not pushing yourself, but stretching yourself, like really going after something. Because even people who are undeniably successful, incredibly talented, they experience imposter syndrome. It's just part of the process. Just because you have the thoughts doesn't mean you need to believe them. And would you give the same advice to existing entrepreneurs? Or would you give a different yeah, yeah. And just whatever comes up along the way, like, I mean, I had run group, I had run workshops where I have over 100 people. I've been lecturing and teaching for years. And then the first time I went online and I ran a masterclass, online, I watched video like that and it was this felt so much more or less personal in some ways. But I gave this first lecture, a free masterclass leading into my program after I gave the the lecture I like broke down crying and went into a huge shame spiral. And I'm like, that was the worst thing I've ever done in my life that was so bad. And my entrepreneur friends are like, oh, you know, we've done that. We thought it was a really bad lecture, but it wasn't really that bad. Wasn't as bad as we thought. I'm like, I know that I've been there. This one was bad. And I was like, cried probably for like two hours. And I was like, and I have to leave that recording up for 72 hours. What am I going to do? I'm so embarrassed. Once I got out of my shame spiral and I like, did my work, I regulated, I did my own investigation, I when look, there's over 300 comments. There was over 100 people in the room. There were there were tons and tons of comments. People like I've given up on masterclasses because there's never any takeaways. This one was so transformative. This is the best masterclass I've ever been to. And I was like, oh my God, I was really convinced that that was horrible. Yeah, like 90% of the things we worry about aren't even true, right? I know yeah. So that was a really good experience to watch myself crumble so much, despite the experience and success that I had, despite the level of confidence that I had in myself and to watch myself go into that. Yeah, well, you got through it, right? Yeah. We also put on your bootstraps and pull up or whatever they say. Final question is, what is your definition of success? What are you chasing after? I love that that's something that I worked on, a while back. This was like, I have a whole list of things, which it's going to be way more poetic than what I'm going to be able to recall right now. But problems, like being able to do the hard things, to have the hard conversations, to stretch, to step outside of my comfort zone, to stretch my capacity for what it is that I think I'm capable of, and to learn that I'm capable of more after I fail to stand up, back up, and and do it again. And to I don't want to say to keep trying because I don't, I think tries just kind of not the best word or vocabulary, but to figure out what I want and to go after it and to constantly keep checking in and making sure that my life is in alignment with my heart and values, well that's fantastic. I can see you're obviously on an unbelievable path, and you have collected a ton of knowledge that was extremely insightful to me and resonated with me, so I appreciate you coming on. If anyone else is like, interested in asking you more questions or could benefit from your services, where could they find you? I would say right now find me on Instagram. That's probably the place where I'm and more active, or go to my website and send an email. But Instagram is probably the easiest social platform to get Ahold of me. Okay, I'm one of those, what's your handle on Instagram? Justine Baruch, how do you spell that? Just J-U-S-T-I-N-E then Baruch B-A-R-U-C-H and then your website, Justinebaruch.com Okay, fantastic. I appreciate you so much coming on. It's been a pleasure. Again, very insightful. So I appreciate it. Okay. I'm excited. Thank you. Your questions are really fun. I love this and I also just being able to see your reaction around branding. You're like, ooh that that works okay. That's solid in my relationship. It's so fun to see how these things that are like from the books. And a lot of it's from my experience as well. But to get to see them land for people, and especially when you guys both were like, oh yeah, yeah, no, not like I said, like genuinely like we try to set the a blank slate before you come in like, so that I don't, you know, know a whole lot about you. And yeah, all the questions that I ask were genuinely just evolved off. You know, what you said before. And like my actual intellectual interests, and what you were saying. So, yeah, you kept me engaged for however long. We're definitely over close to an hour or so. So great job. Awesome. Awesome episode. Right. Thank you. All right.

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