Shakin' Hands

Ep. 51 | Reinventing Search for the AI Era Part I - Michael Novielli

• Jack Moran • Season 1 • Episode 51

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Michael Novielli shares his journey from Wall Street to the world of tech, where he's co-founded SwiftSift, an AI driven mobile app set to revolutionize the search experience. He discusses the frustrations with traditional search engines and how AI, particularly ChatGPT, inspired his shift into the tech world. Michael reflects on the lessons from his career, including the importance of resilience, mentorship, and effective communication in business. He also highlights the parallels between the rise of AI and the dotcom boom, emphasizing that both represent transformative opportunities in their respective eras.

Micahel Novielli


SwiftSift


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Welcome to Shakin’ Hands, where we provide the platform for entrepreneurs and thought leaders to share their stories in order to hopefully influence others to get out of the rat race and chase their own dreams. If you have any recommendations for guests or questions that you want to be asked, please don't hesitate to reach out. Anyways, if you enjoy the podcast, please like, comment, subscribe and share in order to keep the podcast growing. Otherwise, I'm your host, Jack Moran and this is Shakin’ Hands. If you're looking for business mentorship, I have a place where you can get feedback on your unique personal development and business growth challenges. Over the last year, I've brought together a group of impact driven thought leaders where we meet every single day to discuss psychology, communication, mindset, and business case studies. We have people who have made millions of dollars, lost millions of dollars, Harvard MBAs and new entrepreneurs like you and I. Entrepreneurship can be lonely. So if you're looking for a support system, please follow the link in the description below for some more information. Hop right into it, so give me a little background on what you got going on right now. So we are in the process of developing what we believe is a unique and groundbreaking mobile search app that's driven by artificial intelligence. We hope to have our V1 out by July, at which point we'll be beta testing V1 app version one and one gets our 1.0. Yep. At which point we'll be beta testing with a small sample, creating a feedback loop whereby we'll get feedback on the on the app. The good bad, the indifferent. Components and the feedback from the potential users and make adjustments at that point. And we believe and we believe that it may take us 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 more months, maybe to introduce some new developments that will probably go into version two, which might be our MVP or, that will launch with hopefully by the end of the year. Gotcha. Why do you recognize this as an opportunity to pursue this opportunity? Well, with my, co-founder and business partner, Jeffrey Bobby, several years ago, actually going back about 3 or 4 years ago, we when we first met, we came up with the concept, which evolved into this, which was more of a VIP concierge type service here in Charleston. And thought we could kind of expand that into other major cities. When we determined that it was not scalable, you needed to have too much. It was too labor intensive. You needed to have people you can trust in each city to have this type of VIP concierge service in each city. We kind of scrapped it and moved in a different direction. I was in South Beach later on on a business trip and had gone to the gym and was looking for a protein shake after the gym and was walking down the street back to my hotel. And I did what most people do to search for something. You go to Google and I typed in protein shakes and South Beach, and what I got was a list of the ten top things to do in South Beach, and the ten best restaurants in South Beach, and the ten best beaches, etc. and as you know, with search, as it were, over the last 30 years, it was pay to play the bloggers would and the advertisers would pay Google to get high in the rankings on search. And the user experience isn't there, right? It's more geared towards Google, is more geared towards the advertiser, not the actual user. And I was frustrated. I said, you know, you kidding me? I couldn't I can't even find a protein shake. And so I ended up going into like a Publix and buying an off the shelf drink, you know, in, from the store. And it was at that point and I came back home and Jeffrey and I got together, and I said, there needs to be a better search component here. There needs to be a better way to search, more accurate. And we tossed around some ideas and then he said, well, let's let's come up with an app that really, you know, appeals to a lot of people. I said, yeah, so we need something for the masses here. This is a real problem and search is an issue. So we went and lab, so to speak, back and forth. And it wasn't until, GPT ChatGPT came out with their 3.5, I think that was in November of 2022. I was an early adopter. I got on their waitlist and started playing around with the AI, which was incredible. I put in various profile parameters and said, hey, I'm this type of person. I'm this age, I make this kind of money, this is my income range. These are my preferences brands I associate with. And it was was just flabbergasted by the results. And I said, hey, find me the best hotels in New York City based on all of these profile parameters. And I'd get back. And me being from New York, I was very familiar with New York hotels and the entertainment scene there and was just again, was astounded at the accuracy of these hotels that I got back or restaurants that I was looking for. And got back with Jeffrey and said, we we got something here, we're on to something. And, I is here is here for the masses. We certainly didn't have the resources prior to that. We knew we needed an artificial intelligence component that was critical to the app, but we didn't. Like I said, we didn't have the resources, the money, the manpower, the skill set to create our own model. So once GPT came out with three point, I believe I believe it was 3.5 then I knew that was the game changer and we invested our own capital and away we went into development at that point. So we had talked a little bit before the podcast. This is obviously not your first venture. Have you done any other tech startups or. Yeah. So I've spent over 30 years on Wall Street. My career has been in finance. I founded a I co-founded a hedge fund investment firm and have really traveled the world. We had two offices in the US. We had four offices, globally. And I've spent most of my career investing in and advising early stage companies, of which maybe 10 to 15% of them were technology companies. So did you immediately. So just to back up a little bit, like your early entrepreneurial journey, was it I don't know if you went to college or if you jumped right into college, into a job or into starting your own business, like kind of what do those early years look like? Yeah, ever since I was young, I'd say even in my early teens, I was, very entrepreneurial. I had several friends. We did little things in high school and little ventures that we got into profit making ventures. So I always had that entrepreneurial, drive, in my DNA. And I did go to school. I went to University of South Florida, Goebbels and, spent, graduated there in, with a business degree. And, I went into the corporate world for a few years, worked for small companies, worked in the fortune 100 and just decided that I needed to be on my own. I really need to. And I've always had a thing for Wall Street and the excitement there. So, I got hired by one of the major Wall Street firms at that time, Payne Webber, and worked there for almost three years and then decided that, okay, the entrepreneurial drive is within me now. I found my, you know, I found my love. My passion was finance. And how do I make that into an entrepreneurial venture? And when I started with, another, a coworker in the space he was in while he was on Wall Street as well. And, we got together, we started our firm, Dutchess Capital, and from there on, that was 1996. And, we're still going today, and but however, I'm making the transition now from finance into tech. So I've made that decision after spending 30 plus years, in the finance and finance world and enjoying every minute of it, traveling the world and being involved in, you know, almost 300, early stage companies. It's been, you know, it's been a very rewarding and satisfying career. But now I call it the tech bug. And, I'm ready for a new challenge. So how old were you when you started the hedge fund? So I, we founded I co-founded Dutchess and, in 1996, I was, I'm gonna, you know, let you know what my age is here. So I think I was 32, okay. Early 30s. I was married, I had three kids, and, just, said it was time to do it, so that was time. So what was it like raising money at that age? Like, you know, without that raising money is never easy. However, and, as an entrepreneur, the one thing that future investors would like to see is that you have skin in the game. You have your own money in the venture, or you just out looking for, you know, other people's money. Right? So we, my co-founder and I, we put together, you know, a couple of million bucks, friends, family, our own money. And away we went. And, we started the we we started our firm in 96. We were in the advisory and investment banking, raising money for other companies. But we became principals as hedge fund investors. It was in 2000, right after the dotcom crash. So what a what a tremendously awful time to start a hedge fund when the market just crashed after the dot coms, the.com boom. And, but that was actually an opportune time because the market had come down quite a bit. It was settling over the next couple of years, and we started making investments, and the investments that we made early on were at very low valuations, because that's where the world was at the time. And then as the market, as the market made its way back up over the the, you know, the subsequent years, we went with it and then we were able to grow and like I said, open. We had our two offices in the US and for abroad. Are you seeing similarities right now between this like age of AI and the.com boom? So, yes, I, I make the, I try and make the case where I remember the internet when it started back in the mid 90s when, you know, Netscape went public and, the browsers were coming out and it was all very new. There was no Amazon or actually Amazon did come public a little bit later. EBay at that time. And it was, it was a very, exciting time. But at the same time, no one really knew the direction the internet was going to go. And I remember at that time, and Pets.com is one of the one of the the case studies of, of a dotcom gone bad where the world really thought that the internet was going to, essentially, obliterate the brick and mortar stores. And all you would hear was there's no longer going to be a Macy's, there's no longer going to be a Sears or a Dillard's. Everything is going to be done on the internet. And as far as shopping goes and whatnot. And at that time there were some really the the infrastructure there to do e-commerce. There were e-commerce companies, but you didn't have stripe wasn't there, you know, you didn't have merchant accounts and you didn't have third party delivery services that were out there. And that we have today, which makes e-commerce so seamless. It was all very new, and people really thought, you know, that malls were going to disappear and brick and mortar there was going to no need to be to go visit, a brick and mortar store. Everything can be done online. So obviously we know that wasn't true. And you had the.com crash, and then everybody went back to brick and mortar and then it had to settle. You had the early adopters with the internet and then it kind of crashed. And then it made its way back up again. And and now it's become over the last 30 years, it was evolutionary. It really changed our lives. It changed the world and everything that we do and I see the parallels with AI. It's it's in the first inning still, and it's already people are using ChatGPT, they're using grok, they're using Gemini. Now in almost everything that they do daily. They're doing searches, they're doing research using AI. You know, just your AI chat bots. And it's already making its way into health care. It's making its way into the environment. It's making its way into government. It's making its way into education, entertainment and, in the social communities. So I believe, and as do many others, that it's there's going to be a parallel to what happened with the internet over the last 30 years. You're going to see that that same, that same paradigm with artificial intelligence. And it's already happening. You've had a tremendous run over the last two or 3 or 4 years in AI stocks, and now you've got the pullback coming back. And then things are going to settle. The dust will settle like they always did, like it always does. And then you're going to have it become more institutionalized where governments are getting involved. And higher is getting involved. And everybody wants to be in on everything AI robots. So as someone with a lot of investing experience, what conditions in an opportunity do you evaluate to determine whether or not that opportunity is worth pursuing or investing in? Restate that question. So like, you know, maybe an investor says, I like to invest in models because they have recurring revenue. What are the conditions of an opportunity, those variables that you like to what are the boxes you want to check before investing in an opportunity? How do you determine if it's something worth pursuing. So investors, in order to determine a good opportunity, they look at first of all they look at the team first and foremost. You can have the greatest idea of the greatest service. But we've seen I've certainly seen through my career that if you don't have the horses to pull that wagon, you're going to have failure, okay? Because ultimately business is about people. Ideas are about people, and what is the experience that's there and or the passion to really deliver on what you're proposing. So first and foremost is the team. You all you're always looking at the people. Then as far as the actual opportunity goes, you want to see what is the problem and what is the solution that what is the problem that exists and what is the solution that this particular opportunity is proposing to fix that problem. And if you believe that the first of all, the problem has to be large enough to warrant a solution, because you could have, you know, there are many problems in life. Unless that problem is large enough and enough people, enough of a universe is experiencing that problem. You're probably not going to have a successful business unless it's a very unique problem that's intensive, that can, essentially hold, a higher a higher profit margin. You can charge, you can charge a lot more money for something as opposed to something that's made for the masses, where you have lower profit margins, but you make it up in volume. So you're looking at the team, you're looking at the problem, and then how large that problem is and is the solution viable and is it scalable. So this the answer to this question might be a little bit repetitive, but from that alternative side, how do you want to present that information or present your opportunity as someone who's raising money to get the attention of investors? So again, I mean, it's a just to reiterate, when I'm now a presenter, right? So I'm not while I am an investor also in our our app, I'm now pitching a potential investors. And I had the opportunity to go to a VC pitch out in Silicon Valley last, last October. And in giving the presentation, it was it was very interesting, opportunity. And I actually, you know, stated the case where here I am, I spent my entire career as an investor and being pitched and now I'm the pitch, so to speak. And I was pitching a room full of VCs, and all eyes are on you. And I had never been much, on the technology side, pitching a technology product. So I had to present in less than five minutes who I was. That's where I was advised to start with again. Who? You. Who are you? Why are you here? What is the problem and what? What solution do you have? And I had five minutes to make that case. So now that you've had all this experience within your career, you have began mentoring and I don't know if this is your first time being a mentor or if you've done it in the past. Our next guest, we're filming after this is your one of your mentor years. Why have you made the decision to devote your energy and time and to, you know, younger entrepreneurs? Yeah, as I've gotten older and have been through, you know, the wars of the startup game, you you have a lot of you have successes, but there's a lot of failure there. And really, you learn from the failures. I know that's, you know, it's it's it's something that you hear quite a bit and it's overused maybe at times, but it really is true. You know, I'm writing a book right now about my experiences and many of the deals that we've been involved in throughout the years all over the world, and making it somewhat educational and yet entertaining at the same time. So you also have to find humor. You know, when you look back, when you're in the midst of a crisis, it's not funny, right? So it's it's how you it's how you, what what metal do you have to make your way out of that crisis? And what what becomes of you after the fact is what really determines, you know who's going to be successful and who's not. How do you deal with problems? And the sky cannot be falling every day because it does fall every day in a startup. You see that there's I just recently read the book, The Founders, about the story of PayPal. PayPal, we all know it. Today is what it is. And when it was in its development process, the early stages with Elon Musk and Peter Peter Thiel, etc.. Yeah, exactly. That whole, you know, what's come out of PayPal is YouTube. Peter Thiel's group. But obviously Elon's companies, LinkedIn, you have all of these, these platforms now that we're accustomed to using every day that would have never been shaped had they had PayPal never existed. And PayPal by their own rights in the book, they would have gone they should have gone out of business 20 times. They tried to do the deals with eBay to be acquired. I think they were finally acquired by eBay on their fifth attempt. There was just a lot of, you know, they had a love hate relationship with eBay. They both needed they needed each other to coexist, but they hated each other and had to love each other. And there were so many issues with PayPal, but yet they persisted. They had the drive and they just had this never say no attitude. Yes, the sky literally was falling every day, but they mop the floor. They cleaned up the coffee and, they moved on to the next day. The sun rises the next day. And that's really when, when you study the really successful entrepreneurs that that's, that's to me that's part that is, that's in their DNA. And that's what separates, you know, the men from the boys, so to speak. Yeah. And the reason I ask is because we've seen a repetitive theme within the audience of our podcast that a lot of people are looking for good mentors. And I've been lucky to have really good mentors, and I recognize the importance of it. But understanding from a mentors point of view what you look for in order to determine whether it's worth, again, investing that energy into a mentor, like what are those traits that you're looking for in a person? Are the qualities, that you're like, okay, this person is worth my time. Yeah. So what I look for and I and I saw that early on with, with Jeffrey, my, my partner in the, in Swiftsift if that is. I look for a lot of the same qualities that I had when I was their age. And it's it's number one, the drive and you can never say never. You really have to have a passion and a drive that you're going to fall down, but you have to get back up on that bike and you can't sit there and you know, as they say, there's no crying in baseball. And you know, yeah, there all there are days that we want to sit in the corner and roll up, roll up in the fetal position. But okay, do it for five minutes. Have your moment but then get back up on the horse and move forward. So I look for that drive. I look for the same qualities that I had. Somebody that's willing to work hard. There's no question that I worked very hard, as did my my ex partner in our hedge fund firm. You know, I worked I can remember working through weekends, I work through holidays. And I give that one example to, some of my, some of the guys that I do mentored that, you know, I remember it was a 4th of July. I'm from New York. Like I said, the weather was great. People were out and barbecues, they were out in their boats. I was in the office dealing with an issue, and I had no fun that day, but I knew if I just kept at it, I would. I would reap those rewards and have satisfaction from success. And a number of years later, when, when I knew how I had made it, and I said to myself, remember that day you were in the office in the 4th of July? But I missed weddings. I missed family occasions. Now, mind you, I had a family as well. My own family had a wife and three kids. When I wasn't working, I was with the family. So you do have to have you have to have balance. So I also look for someone that has balance in their life as well. And you know, you can't have a lot of chaos. You know, there's some people that just constantly live in chaos. So I'm looking for someone that's young, hungry, willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. Money is a secondary thing. Yeah. Money's great. You know it. You know, it's a barometer of success in most industries. It allows us to have nice things and provide for ourselves. But that's a byproduct of success. You want to have success first in whatever it is you're doing. That's the biggest. That's the biggest win is saying, I won. We won this deal. We made a lot of money on that deal. This deal is a success and success has many fathers. So, you know, we can all say, we've participated in that. And someone that needs to be a team player because also it's not about me. The deals that we've been in, most successful in my career, we've had the best teams and that's what we've put together with Swiftsift app. We have an amazing team. That I've, that we've put together and, it's a combination of youth energy and business experience and success. So that's a good segue into my next question. Again, just to kind of follow up, like with our audience, and I hear a lot of people say, like, if they have this fear of pursuing a mentor because they're like, why would this guy want to do work with me? You probably have a pretty vast network at this point. Like you could work with someone with a similar experience, as yourself. Why do you choose to partner up with someone who's a new entrepreneur that may be more green than some other people in your network? Yeah. So, you know, look, nobody has the monopoly on great ideas. Youth brings energy and it brings a different perspective as well. You know, as you get older. Yeah. You have a lot of the battle scars and you have a lot of wisdom from your experiences. But you center at some point. You also tend to be a little jaded and untrusting. Untrusting because you know how the world operates. But sometimes youth brings in a different perspective that you also need. It brings in fresh energy, too. And that's what I get from from Jeffrey working with him. And not only are we business partners, we're best friends and almost like family. I use almost like a son to me. I'm very, very good friends with his parents as well. And his family. He with mine. And, it's just a great dynamic. So you need to have all of that, you know, just can't be about business. You want to be with my ex partner in the hedge fund firm. We were like brothers for for a decade. For two decades. We traveled together. Our families knew each other, and we had the same perspectives on life in general. And but getting back to the youth perspective, yeah, it brings a different, nuance to, to a venture or to a relationship. You know, it gives you just that, that burst of energy that, you know, you tend to, as you get older, tend to become a little bit more reserved and in a shell. But now you need to break out of that show again, especially in an early stage venture. And you want to be you want to be excited. You want to be energized about what you're doing and get that, you know, that passionate drive again, through all the experiences that you've had with all these different business ventures, what is the single most piece of advice or thing that you didn't know when you first started out that you know now that you wish you knew then that you're passing off to your mentors? You know, I, I could say that I the word is communication. And I believe if I had, I wished I was a better communicator back, you know, when when I was younger I've become a better communicator as I've gotten older and learned because communication really is the core to any successful relationship, whether it's a business venture or a personal relationship, family, friends, your peers, your, you know, no matter what type of relationship you have, communication is important because communication can also break. It will break down a relationship or lack of communication. And if you have communication within any type of organization on the business side, you have strength there. And there can never be, something that wedges and tends to divide if somebody is unhappy, sit down with them, you know, Jim, Joe, what's the issue here? Well, you know, I feel like maybe I should be making more money or I'm putting in a lot of hours. And you have that conversation with someone, and then you come up with a solution. It may not be where both parties are happy, but at least if you can walk away with a meeting of the minds, at least you know the relationship continues on and can can build from there when you have a lack of communication. I've seen organizations just fall apart. You know, jealousy comes into play and you know who raised more money? Whose idea was this? And as I said, as I said earlier, you know, success has many fathers. There's a lot that goes into success. And it's not just one person, it's not a CEO, and it's not a, you know, it's not an investor. It's it's a group of people that come together and, it can it can make success. We used to have a saying, back in the day where a company CEO would get CEO itis it's very I guess you can make the analogy to lead singer disease that you still today and go and rock bands. Yeah. Their ego gets in the way. And the reason why their stock price is tripled in the last years because of them, not because of the teams effort that is built. That company made things better from the secretary to the CEO and the C-suite and the CFO and the mid-level manager and the investors and the other stakeholders. The bank that's involved. So. But no, the CEO would always think that it's because of me. He'd get CEO ideas. And like any illness or disease, it metastasizes and kills the host or ultimately. Yeah. And I think that, like, humans are the most volatile variable of any deal. And that's where there's the least control within that deal. And that's what's beautiful about AI is you can build these businesses with no people. I mean, still, they require people right now. But, you know, that's, I think why so many people are interested in this, like technology that you can systemize and get to work for itself and become an asset that's not reliant on people. It's interesting that you say that because my mentor is he's also our chief marketing officer and chief strategist. Fred Kerry, and I asked him to come on board. He's a very successful CEO in his own in his own right. He's had 4 or 5 exits as CEOs. And, he's one of the smartest guys I know. And but he's a no nonsense guy, and he's also he's he's Italian. And you and I have gotten along great through the years through our personal through personal issues and business issues. I hired him to come into one of our portfolio companies and our hedge fund. He did a fantastic job. We ended up selling it to a private equity firm after that. But, he, you know, like I said, I brought him on board and he's working on a venture right now outside of helping us. And one of the he was brought into a company to kind of help turn it around. The problem was it wasn't scalable. You needed many Fred carries like we needed many. You know, we needed more Mike Norvell Valleys and Jeffrey Bobby's if we were going to scale that early VIP venture the coming years, it just couldn't work. So with the company that he was brought in to turn around, it was not scalable. And he had hundreds of clients, but only one of him or 2 or 3 of his staff that were capable of helping these these come these early stage companies. So through the magic of AI, his with his new company now and he's in the alpha stage, he has created this, you know, this model with all of the content that he has put out there through the years, on social media is blogs and, and they've created a, a version of himself where now he can talk to 10,000 people at one time about their issues with their startup companies and become organizational. It it looks and speaks and acts like he like him through the magic of AI. It's amazing. We've tested it out. You call up and you have a conversation with him and it responds just it's his voice, his intonations. And, so yeah. So to your point about the how AI is, is, is changing, you know, the way we see and do things. My mentor and, he doesn't know he's my mentor. So this is the first time he's ever hearing it, by the way. He he's doing the exact exact same thing. And to a certain extent, so will we with our app. And I got the chance to see that technology yesterday. It's, you know, nothing short of magic. But how I think of it, it's like a step up from an operational manual, right? Like within a company. If you, as the founder of a company. Right. Like, a lot of the ideas are within my brain. So when I'm giving those ideas and delegating them down to the rest of the team, every time I have to repeat that idea, it's time. And so I learned from my mentors to build an operational manual where, you know, every time one of those questions gets asked, or all your systems document them into a manual, because if it's in the manual, then those questions get answered by the manual. And if someone asks the question outside of the manual, then it goes into the manual and it's very similar. I'm seeing that technology being like a step up from that operational manual, where not only are they getting the answers in the business, but they're getting mentorship from the founder himself or the the thought leader himself, where he doesn't have to devote his time, to answer those questions. But his brain is on this platform that can answer those questions. And maybe it doesn't. It only answers 80% everything that is that extra 20% when it gets asked back to him outside of that technology, he can put into that technology and get it to a point where it's essentially replicating his knowledge, which is like profound, in my opinion, like the implications of that. Yeah, it's it's game changing. You know, you mentioned the step up from a manual. Well, I think most of us have, have experienced that through, you know, these very primitive AI chat bots. If you go on to, how many webs, you know, how many times we've gone on to a whatever website it is and a chat bot pops up, hey, how can I help you? That's a that's a very primitive chat bot. It's built. That model is built with, very little, input. Okay. And that's how these models are built. The, these large language models are built by humans. We input the data and the more that the model is operating and being used, the more it quote unquote technically learns, okay. And it's predictive the way these lot models work, it's said, okay, if this word is coming, then we there's a good probability. This word is going to follow. There's an 80% chance that this word will follow that word. And that's how they that's why kind of when you're when you're on one of these, chat bots, these agents like ChatGPT or Gemini, you kind of see it's scripting across because it's trying to predict, okay, what is what is the next word that needs to come in the sentence. And but these very primitive chat bots that you see on customer service sites, insurance and, you know, Allstate or they all have them, they pop up, how can I help you? All you're doing is asking a question and it's going into a database. And the database says, okay, based on, you know, this question, these are the five answers. But that's the primitive version. Like you said, you had an opportunity to see something that's more transformative with Fred's company. Now in that technology where it's conversational, it's almost as if you're actually speaking to an individual and where it's really going to get crazy. Is is what I said earlier is with robotics now they're going to they're introducing these AI models into robots. And that's where, you know, you see a lot of the ethical issues that are being raised. Our robots and AI going to eliminate the human race. Almost like, you know, as my next question, the Terminator. Right. The Terminator movies is the analogy they use. And do you think AI has the ability to replace like the human workforce? It's that's kind of a double edged sword. So will it replace humans in certain industries? Yeah. No, no. Different than I remember. I'm old enough to remember the typewriter. You know, when I was in college, I typed my papers, or we had to bring someone that knew how to bring your paper to someone that knew how to typed. They knew how to type. And, now, you know, you had the and then you had the personal computer come along with, with Apple and with IBM. And now today we use keyboards. We're not using typewriters. So, you know, there were people that were hired as typists. That was their job. Secretaries had to learn how to type. You don't have that anymore. So, you know, businesses evolve and there's always progress. So will I replace certain jobs and certain careers? Yeah, I think it will, because I think it'll make it more efficient. However, the opportunity exists for individuals in certain industries and businesses that say, well, you know, do I see this coming down the pike? And am I going to am I going to be replaced in a year or two? There's always other opportunities. How I stay. It's how do I stay ahead of that curve. It happened to me in my career when I started, like I said early on as a stockbroker with Pain Webber, I remember I did a big trade. I put my, my client list in a particular stock. The stock, you know, did very well. It performed well. Everybody made a nice profit. So we were selling out of the position and we were going to move into another stock. So I had called one of my clients. He was a large real estate investor, but he was in the stock market. And I said, hey, Steve, we're moving into a different position. Can we, you know, let's sell your stock. Let's make the profit move on. He said, absolutely. Let's do it now. What we were we were called full service stock brokers at the time, meaning that we found the idea, we did the research, and then we brought it to the client. At that time, you had there were there was deregulation in on Wall Street about charging commissions, and you had the rise of Charles Schwab and discount brokers. So Steve and I went to lunch and we were, you know, we were celebrating, you know, big win. And then he led on to me that he had actually bought triple the amount through a discount broker after I had given him the idea, he went to a discount broker to buy three times the amount that he bought through me. And I said, why would you do something like that? He said, because the commissions were cheaper. It was at that moment I said the full service stock broker is going the way of the dinosaur because of technology and people's access. Back then, clients had to call you the stockbroker for a quote on IBM or Disney. Then all of a sudden you had CNBC and what was this new business channel? And I had a scrolling ticker and they could get quotes on TV now. And then all of a sudden this thing called the internet came around. And you can actually get quotes, you know, on, on your own computer. That was the the beginning of the end of the full service broker. So I said to myself, how do I stay ahead of this curve? So I formulated a plan and said, okay, there's, a need in the market for investment bankers, for small companies to raise money. I have a background in the, you know, securities industry. I'm licensed. Let me move in that direction. That's exactly what I did. And I became successful. So that message can go out to anybody. So getting back to I, it's the same thing. Look at where you're at. Am I value added. What I'm doing right now. You know do I do I am I creating enough value. Will I create enough value going forward. Or will I either enhance what I'm doing or maybe replace me? Therefore let me learn about it. Let me. And that's what I'm doing. I'm immersing myself and I, I had no idea what what is behind a large language model, but I'm reading books, taking courses on this now, educating myself. So. And I think everyone should do that because AI is going to affect everything we do. As I said, it's evolutionary, so it's up to the individual to take that and run with it or not and suffer the consequences. And, I only have a couple more questions here because I know you guys have a time deadline, but, where in this might be again, a little bit repetitive, but where do you. And there's probably not one cookie cutter answer, but I'm interested to hear your, take on it. Where do you see value for humans moving forward? Like where they can add value with this, like, you know, changing industry, or changing culture with AI? Yeah, it comes down to creativity again. So, you know, the human mind is a is a complex is a complex organism, the brain. And how we react to certain situations and come up with ideas. AI is a tool. It's there. It's a component that can help us achieve what we want to achieve. There's always going to be a need for the human spirit. You know, the drive, the passion. You can't. I don't believe you can recreate that in artificially. You know, again, I'm spiritual, I'm religious. So I have belief in a higher faith. So, and a higher being, and, you know, our creator, there's nothing that is going to to ultimately, lead to the human demise other than humans itself. Humans ourselves. But there's always it again, it comes down to the individual and the ability to, you know, have that drive to succeed, to move forward, educate yourself, be the best you can be, and you will succeed no matter what it is that you're doing. I have no doubt about that. I've seen, you know, guys rise from the ashes, you know, declared bankruptcy, you know, just the bottom of the barrel, and they have a drive. Some people come from, you know, that. You know, they come from, you know, torn, torn family relationships. And some people choose to make excuses and others choose to use that as as a drive to succeed and be better, than maybe some of their, you know, their environment. Some people are born wealthy, some people aren't. Many people that aren't born wealthy become wealthy. How did they become wealthy? And some people that are born wealthy kind of lose it. So again, it all comes down to the human spirit. I don't think you'll ever be you'll ever be able to recreate that. And if we embrace artificial intelligence, use it as a tool. I don't I don't think there's anything that any particular individual can't achieve. If they put their mind to it. So final question. You said the word succeed a couple times. How do you define success personally? Again, to me, success is about winning. And it it's hard to define. I guess it depends on what industry that you're in. If you're a teacher, what percentage of your students graduate go to the next step. It's not, you know, a teacher isn't going to make as much money necessarily as an entrepreneur. But money is not the barometer of it is a barometer of success in some industries. But it is not the, you know, the, the, the end all be all success is is how it's defined. I think by, by the, by the industry that you're in, if it's personal success or business success, if it's your like I said, if you're a teacher, how many of your students are graduating. What are your peer reviews with lawyers. Lawyers are peer reviewed by, you know, certain certain platforms that are out there and you have a 5.0 rating by your peers, or you rated 3.5 by your peers. And so I think that means a lot. And what's the barometer for yourself? How are you gauging your success? How am I gauging my success personally, business or with our app, whatever the highest priority is for you. So right now, my my highest priority is our app, our Swift Swift app. And success will be really based. The number one metric is going to be the amount of users that we get with the app. So the more adaptability that we get with the app, more scalability that we have with it, the more success that we're going to have. And that's what I'm looking forward to. What's the growth model to get those users? So we believe that about a third of our acquired new, newly acquired users will come through sharing, because it's going to be a very shareable type of platform, and about two thirds will come from, you know, traditional ad campaigns through influencers, online marketing, etc.. So it's about a two third, one third model, and that includes attrition that you have, which is typical in any type of mobile app. What's a really cool idea? And I definitely would be a user. I see a big need for it. I was talking to Jeff yesterday about how, one of those people that you know, has given up on the typical ways to find restaurants and find locations to go on because of that lack of trust. So I think it's, you know, there's a massive need for it and you guys are going to have huge success. And it's clear that you have a ton of experience and, and, your growth path is inspiring. So I congratulate you and your success. If people wanted to reach out to you or want to keep track of what you guys are doing on the app, and what it is, live. Want to utilize the app? Where can I find you? And, you know, find out about what you guys are doing. So our, website is swift. sift dot net, and we're on all social media that's out there. One x, we're on, TikTok, Instagram. So most of the major social media platforms were out there and we're constantly updating it. And, so, I encourage everyone to, to, to follow us and hopefully become, at one point in the future. A very, enthusiastic user of the app. Fantastic. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much for having me. On.

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Jack Moran

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