Shakin' Hands
Welcome to 'Shakin' Hands,' the podcast where entrepreneurship meets fascinating stories from the most intriguing minds today. From proven business practices to groundbreaking ideas that challenge the status quo, Shakin' Hands' is not just about the handshake that seals a deal but about the shared experiences and values that unite us all. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned business owner, or someone who loves a good story about overcoming odds, Shakin' Hands' promises to deliver compelling content that shakes up the conventional and celebrates the extraordinary.
Tune in to Shakin' Hands' where leaders, thinkers, and doers come to share, inspire, and, most importantly, connect. Let's shake hands with the world, one story at a time.
Host: Jack Moran
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Shakin' Hands
Former City Councilor: Politics Is All Theater
Ian Cain, Co-Founder and Executive Chairman of QUBIC Labs, and former President & former City Councilor for Quincy, Massachusetts, pulls back the curtain on what politics looks like when the cameras are off. Why “public service” often turns into optics, fundraising, and playing a role. You’ll hear what it actually costs to run for office, how ballot access works, and why donors and messaging can matter more than ideas. Ian also shares what led him to walk away after years in the system, and what he believes needs to change if we want leaders who are real, not performative. Now on the other side of politics, Ian breaks down what he’s building today through QUBIC Labs, a Quincy-based nonprofit incubator focused on blockchain and digital infrastructure, and why he’s obsessed with turning big ideas into real-world adoption.
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Host: Jack Moran
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I met um Joe Biden once. And that's the only living president I've ever met. And I shook Bill Clinton's hand one at once, I think. But um anyway, the thing he said to me was, he said, Oh, city councilor, man, he's like, they know where you live. And I was like, oh, that's that's very true. They do. Yeah. Um and I mean it's accurate. It's nice to say, but they know where you live.
Jack Moran:And um there's repercussions. Welcome to Shaking Hands, where we provide the platform for entrepreneurs and thought leaders to share their stories in order to hopefully influence others to get out of the rat race and chase their own dreams. If you have any recommendations for guests or questions that you want to be asked, please don't hesitate to reach out. Anyways, if you enjoy the podcast, please like, comment, subscribe, and share in order to keep the podcast growing. Otherwise, I'm your host, Jack from Randon, and this is Shaking Hands.
Ian Cain:I recently went on a uh silent meditation retreat uh at what's called the Vipassana Meditation Center. And there are hundreds of these around the world. There's one in Shelburne Falls, Massachusetts, uh, which is about two hours uh west of here, pretty close to Vermont. And this was the second one that I went on uh in the past year. I um I guess like going back into you know why. Um years ago, I went on a retreat during high school. I was a senior in high school. I went to BC High, which is uh a Jesuit preparatory school, and um they offer a retreat to juniors and seniors called Kairos. And this is a four-day retreat. Um, you know, you don't really know much about it except that it's connected to God and spirituality and um trying to develop deeper connections with with those aspects. Um, but you know, it turns out that that retreat had a huge impact on my life.
Jack Moran:Really?
Ian Cain:Yeah, it did. Um, you know, it was a series of of talks given by teachers and um and students, classmates of mine, um, all about connecting with yourself and with God in different ways. And, you know, throughout that period, we were given notebooks. And uh I started writing at that point, and I was never really a big writer um to express myself about anything, but I I started writing. I I learned to be introspective, and I haven't stopped. I mean, I've been journaling since that time, like I can pinpoint uh that period as as being sort of the catalyst for uh my many years of writing, and and so um it was 2018, and you know, I don't know what's going on in my life. I I'm in a job where I thought I had taken a role to sort of um it was like an entrepreneurial experience. I thought I was gonna help grow a couple of arms of an already existing business. Um, I was about to be married, and um, but I I felt a I guess I felt a disconnection to myself. I felt a disconnection uh from God and I um I looked up retreats, like I wanted to go on a retreat, and I found the Vipassana Center. Um and I was like, all right, this sounds kind of cool. And I I signed up for one. I didn't get off a wait list, so I didn't I didn't get to go, and then just sort of life gets in the way because this is this is a 10-day retreat. It's a 10-day silent meditation retreat, and I was like, all right, I'm down. Um, but you know, uh 2019, 2020, COVID, like I started an organization, life happens, things get in the way, and sort of carving out that time, just it didn't happen. Um, but then ended up separating from uh my partner at the time in 23, and um I was like, I'm going on this retreat, like you know, um, and then we're in 24 when I had registered to go on the retreat, I decided to run for US Senate, and so uh did the exact opposite of going inward. I I threw everything out, and then um so I canceled the retreat when I got smashed in the smushed or you know, totally uh beat up in the primary. I said, there's nothing stopping me from going on this, and so I registered to go in April 25, and that was the first one I did. And um, the first one was like it was wild. Um, you know, I don't know if no nobody spends 10 days by themselves.
Jack Moran:You are by yourself.
Ian Cain:I mean, you are by yourself, you're always by yourself, right? You with this group of people, they're probably about a hundred plus people, uh, men and women, they're separated. The quarters and sort of in the hall situations when you're doing group meditations, uh, they're separated. But you know, you never you never spend 10 days by yourself in silence. Uh you don't spend all day meditating, that's for sure. Uh, but really looking at the deep aspects of of yourself, your body, and and really trying to uncover um the experiences of your entire life that are trapped in your body, right? Um, and that's what I can't teach you the method. You have to go learn on your own, but that's what the method teaches you is to understand that you have a life's worth of experience trapped in your body, and you are essentially bringing life to it. Um, and there's much more because it's it's trying to understand your habit patterns of the mind. Okay, understanding that most people are constantly chasing pleasure or averting displeasurable or painful situations constantly. And so what that does is cause uh addiction, right? And takes you out of the present. Yeah, it certainly takes you out of the present. But if you're constantly chasing pleasure because you want to avoid pain, that is going to be a habit pattern that can you can continue. And that and people do that in many different ways. They might be addicted to uh a certain substance, they might be addicted to just sort of a dopamine hit of some sort that they get. Social media takes it full advantage of this, right? And people aren't aware of that. It brings an awareness to understanding um those habit patterns and to be able to change them, to have a non-reaction to those pleasurable situations or those that are non-pleasurable and treating them equally.
Jack Moran:Did you take that away from the retreat or you knew that I had before?
Ian Cain:No, I wasn't really aware of that uh at the time. I, you know, I certainly um familiarized myself uh during the retreat.
Jack Moran:But are they guiding you through it?
Ian Cain:Or yeah, there are, I mean, it so the the days are the days are full and they're long. So you're up at four in the morning, oh wow, and then it's blocks of individual like on your own time to meditate, where you can meditate in your quarters or in the group hall or in what's called a pagoda cell, which is like um it's a structure with a whole number of small, sort of like soundproof closets that you can go in and meditate, which are unbelievable. Like if you've ever wanted to experience what silence is like, uh that is the perfect place to do it. Or, you know, any place that you can find that you can uh really crowd out noise to to sort of understand um that sound.
Jack Moran:You said it was hard. What was hard about it?
Ian Cain:Shutting your mind off. That's the goal, quiet the mind. Did you have the urge to talk? No, I never had the urge to talk. I didn't have a problem with that. Um, and you're you are you know you're passing people in the halls, you're uh in the uh the food quarters or whatever, you know, the food hall, eating across and next to uh people. So, you know, and you it's funny how much you can learn about people through nonverbal communication. Super interesting. So you build you start building profiles because what else are you doing, especially when you're eating? Wow. You start to build profiles of all these people. And so on the last day when you can speak, um, you either um validate validate or refute those profiles that you built.
Jack Moran:How many were like accurate?
Ian Cain:Um, well, that depends, right? Because you probably you could have built profiles on people and you're like, I I don't know if I'd actually want to engage with that person, so you don't necessarily need right. You know what I mean? I it just human nature. Um yeah, some of them are correct, like some of them are correct, and some Yeah, you pick up a lot of micromanages. Wow. Um, and you know, directly after, it's like it's funny, it's the the the two times that I that I uh attended, the young people immediately are like they gravitate towards each other and they start they start talking right away. Um and I'm kind of like, I need another minute, like I need to like ease into this because you've done uh you've done a considerable amount of like a surgical operation on yourself. You know, you've opened up wounds and you've looked at things and things have arisen that you might not have ever looked at or you forgot about that have been dormant. And so just engaging back in uh trite, you know, banal conversation is just it's difficult. Um, because you just went so deep, you know. Um and so the you know, the first one was just it was it was new, it was um it was it was fresh, you know what I mean? It was powerful. Um there were things that I was able to see and I guess identify in myself, like being able to look at my own anger, right? And to see that it is it's not actually me, right? Anger isn't me, it's not a part of me, it's just it's just an emotion that's separate that uses me for a reaction, right? And you don't have to react, right? There's nothing you do not have to react when a situation that would typically uh call for you, or you know, you might typically react in a way that would uh evoke anger, you can look at that situation and choose not to react. Right?
Jack Moran:Mm-hmm. Be the observer.
Ian Cain:To be the observer, right.
Jack Moran:The first time we met, we had a pretty deep introspective conversation. Would you say that the retreat changed your trajectory or has reinforced that trajectory um that we were on or that you were on that you described to me?
Ian Cain:Reinforced, you know. I think the first one was setting the stage and the foundation. The second retreat I felt was more like integration. And um, and the second one I went on because I had met someone at the end of the first retreat who said, you know, you should come on another one before the end of the year just to sort of lock in the benefits. And and the the benefits are uh it it's work, right? It's constant work. Like if you want to be better at anything, it's work. If you want to be better at being yourself or finding peace, or I don't know, finding in this case what they call a path to true liberation, it takes work. It's not just sitting for 10 days and then saying, Oh, well, I did it, you know, let's move on. I I tick that box, I'm spiritual, I'm liberated and peaceful.
Jack Moran:Right. That's not how it works.
Ian Cain:It takes a lot of discipline every day, you know. And um what what this program recommends is that you meditate for two hours a day, uh once in the morning, once in the evening. And I I kept that up uh through the summer, and then just you know, life happens and you deprioritize for other things. Um I have much more intention now to kind of to keep that up. And um, you know, again, it's just work. But and that was the biggest lesson that I took from the second retreat was that I think you often forget how much focus and intention and determination any type of work takes to be successful, you know, and it's not just this like monetary success, it's this successful in finding peace, it's the successful in being aware, it's successful in being a human or a person, right? Um so yeah, no, it certainly encouraged me to go deeper and to continue, I guess, along as they would say, the path.
Jack Moran:Yeah, and so I obviously have a little bit of a background, but you have a pretty interesting story. Let's like backpedal way back. Like, where did your whole journey start? Like, even as far back as childhood. And I I know you had kind of mentioned to me like getting into politics, it was kind of ingrained in you from a very young age. Um, and you had mentioned to me other politicians that are kind of in the same um um had the same environment, like it's a it's a common thing. Um, so I'm kind of interested in learning a little bit more about that. Yeah.
Ian Cain:Um born in Boston, uh, where my parents met, and um we spent the first few years of my life in the Back Bay. And um by the time I think I was four, we moved to Quincy, where my mom is from. And um, you know, I um I had a I had a great upbringing. Um I I grew up across the street from my grandparents. Um, you know, since I was young, I you know, I had the ability to have conversations with people, which apparently is sometimes rare in young people, whatever. Um, but I was always encouraged that I would be, you know, the mayor or a politician. And uh that was something that I took, I think, very much to heart.
Jack Moran:And so it was kind of playful how they were saying it.
Ian Cain:It wasn't something like you, like a Kennedy type thing or that we were we're certainly no Kennedys, but um yeah. But you know what I mean. And I don't know how that process works to be in a family like that. Right. But uh that's a different level, I think, of encouragement. Gotcha. But this was oh, here's a uh engaging, uh thoughtful young person who says hello to people and looks them in the eye when uh they speak. Oh, you're gonna be a politician or something, you know? And I think I took that to heart. It was uh it was, I don't know, it must have been empowering or encouraging or something, but it was something that I certainly gravitated towards. And in politics, um, you know, I I used to sit with my grandmother. She uh used to love watching the Sunday shows and Crossfire every night on CNN when that show was on there. And so I became familiar with her and my mother's mostly, I became familiar with my father's brand, but their brand of politics. Um, and I, you know, I I guess we'll go into kind of this a little bit, but um, that brand was mostly Republican. My grandmother was a Republican, my grandfather's a Republican, my mother was a Republican, my father was a Democrat. And me, sort of, I guess to give um some more color, pun intended, my father's black and my mother's white. And so um, I always say that I came from a biracial, bipartisan household. Okay, and so um, you know, there were unique political conversations. Um, you know, my dad being a little more liberal, and I think um, you know, often people associate um uh black uh voters with the Democratic Party, um, and my grandmother being conservative, also being a Catholic and kind of you know, being a uh a pro-life uh Republican, but in obvious the fashion of that's your dad's mom or your this is my mom's mom. Gotcha. Yeah. So uh when I was young, somehow got put in my head that um I wanted to be the president of the United States. So at seven years old, you know, had this sort of very vivid, impactful experience where George H.W. Bush was running for president, and um my mother put a bumper sticker uh on my back as I went to school, and we got a picture of it. I um I used it in my U.S. Senate campaign.
Jack Moran:No way.
Ian Cain:Yeah, yeah. And um, and that was empowering. There was something about that connection and that identity that was empowering, and um that was the start, that was the planting of a seed that um that really didn't stop germinating and growing in me and in my mind uh for many years. Um I set a plan um in in how I wanted to accomplish that goal, and that included going to BC High, it included going to Boston College, it included going to Boston College Law School, I'd practice law, I would be a state senator, and then I'd I'd run for president. It was very simple. Like, okay, how else do you think that's it? And so um, you know, then life happens. I did go to BC High. Um, I did go to Boston College, and um, you know, I I think that um that thing just never went away. Like I always thought I knew what I wanted to do, even though I was kind of fighting it along the way. And then you start learning about yourself too. What do you mean you were fighting it along the way? Because I I'm like, why am I doing this?
Jack Moran:You were making decisions that weren't aligned with totally because of that thing.
Ian Cain:Yeah, that weren't that like were like, why why am I so hooked on this? Why do I feel like I have to do this? You know? And um, and so I followed it to BC, and um, you know, one of the things that uh was a huge, huge hang up for me was when you think of a of a political future and you think of a vision, um, you know, mine certainly involved marrying a woman, having 2.5 kids, and having that picture perfect image that you need because politics is it's just theater, right? It is actors on stage uh showing you what they think you want to see. Um and, you know, at a certain point in my teenage years, I recognized that uh I probably wasn't gonna marry a woman. And um, and that was a very difficult thing for me. That shook things up. Well, it didn't immediately shake things up, but it was a very difficult thing for me to accept. And so, you know, I'm I've got this political seed, I'm fighting myself in who I am, and I'm fighting my you know own personal um humanity, right? And trying to be this political image. And um, you know, you had asked me a very thoughtful question uh when when we last met um about what it was like to hide, right? What it was like to hide. And um I've never been asked that question before, and I thought it was just it was it was really um it was really poignant, um, because it was it was terrible, but except I thought that my hiding would give me a greater reward on the other side, right? Um, and I think for me, when um you know I'm coming out of college and I mean I'm I'm I'm dating a woman and I'm like what the hell am I doing, you know? Um I broke down basically. Like I couldn't keep that lie up anymore. Because you're carrying the weight. Yeah, I couldn't, I just couldn't do it. And I and I was in it, so when the crazy part is is that I I then tried to uh manage the political dream. So not live to, you know, sort of for myself or or uh for the for the best life that I could possibly live, but for the political dream. So I always I th I think I actually came out just to sort of protect myself from any future political ramifications that could come because I knew I was still gonna run for office, right? Um, which is crazy. Um and so, you know, um you then get into you know some interesting um complications too. I I worked um after college for a commercial real estate firm for a couple of years, then I joined an energy focused private equity fund and um We owned power plants in the Middle East, North Africa, and East Asia. And I was a just a Quincy kid who, you know, didn't get to didn't know the world too much outside of what I had studied or, you know, understood through uh media. And then all of a sudden was sort of thrown in the global scene and started traveling the world and understanding more about geopolitics and global finance. And um, we were traveling a lot to the Middle East at that time. And that just kind of further complicated where sort of I believed that I fit in the world. Um, you know, having a familiarity with um Middle Eastern uh culture and society not necessarily being so favorable to uh homosexuality and things like this, I was back in the closet, right? I was back hiding. Again, though, um sitting in this place where uh you think you're doing the right thing for your own professional success and not for your own health and wellness, really, right? Um, and I, you know, I just I I give that color because it's like this is the story that's interspersed. It's like trying to be something uh throughout my life that just really um makes for a more complicated uh living, you know. Um, but the political thing never went away. I but I ended up going to business school, got an MBA, came back to Quincy, uh, was living with my folks, working at a startup in Cambridge tech company, and a seat on the city council opened up here. And I said, if I don't run for this, I'm never gonna do it. So I ran. Um, and it was just it was just super exciting. Um, I was so engaged, you know, this was my political startup, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. And um I won. Um and you know, I I sat in that role for 10 years, just uh finished my last term in uh the beginning of January.
Jack Moran:So when you to backpedal a little bit more, when you were a kid and you have this like romantic view of being a politician, what were you perceiving that was going to be like and what was attracting you to that? And then what was that journey into that like and those realizations of this is the actuality of what it is like, and then what is that actuality?
Ian Cain:It's a lot in there. Um so you know, I think I was looking at George H.W. Bush as president of the United States and saying that is uh that is a character, that is a model, um, that is a statesman, right? I used to write to when I was a kid, I used to write to him at the White House, right? So I've got all these like rings. That's awesome. Yeah, like um, and you know, I I think what you think politics is um are leaders guiding citizenry to where, I don't know, places with uh lower or no taxes, um in certain cases protections around uh social services that could be, you know, healthcare or um defense in a certain way, you get positions around that. Um you know what you didn't have in the 80s and the 90s and into the early uh turn of the century was uh constant media cycle. The television media had its own 24-hour cycle, but it was you could shut the TV off. And not like you can't shut your phone off these days, but it was just different inputs, right? So uh and people were more aligned on the communications that they received as opposed to the information that's distributed today and consumed. Um, so that's that's the model that I look at. You know, I I think in looking at the the television federal level model, um, I don't think I ever thought I would do anything local. Um there was a there was a minute in 2010 when I thought I would run for a state senate seat that had opened up, but I wasn't I knew I wasn't personally ready to do that, and so I didn't. But um even running at the local level, I never I just never thought I was better than that or something. You know what I mean? Like just based on where I thought I was gonna go. Um so you know, what politics is uh from my experience, like how do I articulate this? Um one, it's a game. It's a game. Um you know it it is probably most often not the best of us, the people that play this game, too. Um, and it is a game that um it plays to to sometimes the worst part of people, their egos, their desires, um, their lust for for power or for some sort of authority or position. Um and it's about optics. It is really about that uh playing a character. So, you know, most often I think the thing that I learned, it's like you can you can advance um one, you can't make everyone happy, and and that's just it's impossible to do. Um, but you could be doing all the the best things in the world, and if somebody doesn't like one little thing about you or what you said or what you have done, then it then it negates all those good things that you've advanced, right? Um people unfortunately have no um uh ability to contextualize um broader institutional situations and put them all into perspective. They can focus on one little thing and and decide whether they like that or not.
Jack Moran:Are you saying people, the politicians themselves or the audience?
Ian Cain:Uh people, citizens, gotcha, you know, constituents.
Jack Moran:Gotcha.
Ian Cain:Um, and that makes it difficult. Um, yeah, but I think some politicians um, you know, they're out for survival, you know, they uh they need this for their own identity sometimes. Um and I know there was another part to your question. I think I I don't know if I'm touching on it yet.
Jack Moran:Um I think you covered most of the question, but to just go a little bit deeper into that, like what specifically caused that uh um transition in perspective? Um, like were there any specific instances where you're like, okay, this is a little bit different than I expected it to be?
Ian Cain:Oh yeah. Uh I mean, right from the get-go, because I think um when when you get into something and you're like, okay, I'm ready to work, like I care. You know, I I was elected to serve in this role. And they're like, slow down. It not anybody thinks slow down, but you just you start to pick up, oh my god, these people are just like kind of some some, not all of them. I'm not speaking, but this isn't a blanket statement about politicians, but um, well, these people, they don't they don't really care, or they're jaded, maybe, maybe they're jaded at that point, but they don't seem to care. And that used to really piss me off because I'm like, I care. How can you not care? Like, what are you doing here? Why are you wasting everyone's time here if you really don't care about this role? You know? Um, and you know, I I it was very early on because you know, you you wouldn't have um a particular level of engagement on certain issues, or um, people would just sort of support things without you know you understanding if they even understood the concepts. Um, and I I I I think that is unfortunately more prevalent than than it isn't.
Jack Moran:Do you think on the local level is the same as the federal level? Just scaled up is the game the same? Yeah. It's a game of influence, right?
Ian Cain:Or I do. Yeah, I think that this is the I think local level actually is the best place to learn how to play politics. Um, because you are interacting with your neighbors and like family and friends, like it's just close proximity. Um I met um Joe Biden once, and that's the only living president I've ever met. And I shook Bill Clinton's hand one once, I think. But um anyway, the thing he said to me was he said, Oh, city councilor, man, he's like, they know where you live. And I was like, Oh, that's that's very true. They do, yeah. Um and I mean it's accurate, it's not to say, but they know where you live. And um there's repercussions, but it's I you know, you just it's it's the best place to learn because it's retail politics, and so you know, it's like you're a solo shop. Like, I don't, you know, we had some shared admin in an office, but I didn't have a team. So you're taking the calls, you're fielding the email, you know, you're you're and you're getting quicker real-time feedback. Absolutely, right? Like, so if you don't respond to someone about their tree being trimmed or a sidewalk or a curb, you know what I mean, something like that, their trash being picked up, um, they're gonna be annoyed, right? Um, and they will that information can spread a lot uh faster, you know, than um if you were probably at at a higher level in politics. Um you can't escape, you know what I mean, being being a local politician as to the the higher levels. And um, and I think people um not that everybody I I don't know how anybody looks at anybody, right? So um, but I think that sometimes some of these uh the federal level politicians, like people put them on on pedestals, and I think that's just because they now have to play at this sort of celebrity-like level in order to remain relevant. Interesting, you know.
Jack Moran:What skill set do you like? What is the makeup of a politician? What is that like skill set that's required to be good, whether it's good or bad?
Ian Cain:Huh. Um, I mean, you gotta Charisma probably is a big one. Yeah, yes. Yeah, you have to be able to communicate, right? Uh it's marketing. So you're marketing yourself, you gotta be able to communicate, you gotta believe in yourself, so you gotta have some ego. Um you gotta be able to raise money in order to allow your message to get out. Um, that was, you know, it's one thing again, local level is one thing where you you you do need to raise money. It's about spending money on paper and postage, paper being like, you know, uh graphic cards that you mail out, uh, maintaining a website, uh, but postage is a big one, especially in a in an early campaign. Um, but when you get up to the federal level, like US Senate seat that we try to go for, um, that's enterprise building. So, you know, I I made an estimate. I I'm like, I think you needed $50 million to have a chance at beating an incumbent for US Senate. Um, and that is paying that's building staff, uh, that is uh media buys, that is paying consultants, you know. Uh you're essentially paying everyone to help you get your message out in a broader fashion. But um yeah, that's enterprise building, it's cash flows.
Jack Moran:Is it really just a money game at the end of the day?
Ian Cain:At that level, I think, yeah.
Jack Moran:What um what are those objectives like on that team? Like that you're building out that admin and those consultants. Is it getting dirt on the other side? Is it a you know finding surveying the people to find out, you know, what the audience wants to hear and then delivering them that message?
Ian Cain:Um differentiating it from I think it's all that. Um, you know, um you have a consulting team that helps you manage the effective operation, and then you've got a campaign manager that works with them, and um, you get research people that will help you do uh research for your own education, but then research on your opponent or opponent. Um you know, then there are uh communications consultants, right? There's a PR that needs to happen. Um yeah, really it there there are a lot of people out there that get into this political game that are looking for continuity of employ. And so what does that mean? Like they, you know, campaigns are temporary, they're not forever. And so people hop from campaign to campaign because they need continued employment.
Jack Moran:Gotcha.
Ian Cain:Gotcha. Yeah. So um, you know, there's a lot of people that um I mean that's their life, is is hopping from campaign to campaign.
Jack Moran:Interesting.
Ian Cain:And there's you know, if there's fresh funds coming into a campaign, then it helps that.
Jack Moran:Would you say that the Senate race was a positive experience or a negative experience?
Ian Cain:Um, I think it was I I think it was positive. Um despite the outcome, which I didn't even get 10% of the vote, which is fine. Um, I learned so much. Um, I think, you know, I was I was called to do it. Um it was an opportunistic play. It wasn't like I had eyed trying to challenge Elizabeth Warren for her US for the US Senate seat that she holds from Massachusetts. Um, but there had been sort of this this conversation that had evolved from the space that we play in Cubic Labs and the blockchain and digital asset space, where she has been the most vocal opponent uh to the space in Congress. And um, you know, I'd had a conversation with one larger organization that played, and there was some uh scuttle butt about my name. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna go for it. Because if I can bridge GOP support in Massachusetts to the crypto money, then this actually becomes a serious race. Um and then, you know, you you learn um you learn how tough it is to build that organization in in the six months that you you need to in a in a primary contest that I had to play in. But you know, I I learned that money is paramount um because that allows the um I mean the car to be built, right? The engine and the car to be built so that you can run. Um because if you don't have that team around, you you just can't like you can't get a message out. You it's everything is essentially pay-to-play. Um and that that is team advertising, you know, down to Facebook ads, social media ads, and things like that. Right. So if you don't have the budget for that, then you can't do it. Even in Massachusetts, um ballot access is pretty uh difficult. You need uh 10,000 registered voter signatures to get on the ballot. And I didn't have a volunteer effort, so um of the money that I raised, I had to spend $150,000 on getting signatures.
Jack Moran:Wow.
Ian Cain:Yeah, just to get on the ballot.
Jack Moran:With the Elizabeth Warren situation specifically, you said that she opposed, and correct me if I um unpack this improperly, but she opposed like the blockchain initiatives that you were bringing forth or that were already present. Um, what was the differen or what was her stance in the public? And then what do you think her vested interest in taking that stance was?
Ian Cain:Those are great questions. So her her her public stance was um in her lead her sort of announcement for her uh campaign that we ended up running in was that she was building an anti-crypto army. So um you're like, what? Because uh nobody's uh anti-crypto. You know, at least not a large enough constituency to uh to build around a campaign. Um but she had just become antagonistic uh to the space. And why I have no idea. Um to protect the interest of the incumbent large institutional banks in the country. I have no idea, even though the banks that she says she's against, because that's what the position would be. But the crypto space itself is a is a very interesting um is an interesting thing because there are many different philosophies within now that exist. And it started as a um a disintermediation um of entities from transact, like from preventing us from transacting between each other, right? So Bitcoin is the most popularly known use case. Um but so so get banks out of the way, get lawyers out of the way, get any person that could stand in the way of you and I transacting, right? Freedom money, they were calling it. And now we've got so many uh different sorts of like crypto applications and um speculative tokens and coins um that a lot of that has gone by the wayside, it's become more of a speculative asset than it has this sort of concept and philosophy of freedom money. Um from her perspective, she takes always, I think, the I'm the consumer protection advocate, which is a character that's a role, you know. Um and because if if if she was a true consumer advocate for the space, then she would probably um be working to put better guardrails in place to allow the space to thrive while protecting consumer interests, as opposed to just being a total stalwart and being in the way of progress in terms of commercial uh engagement and activity. So um, you know, I can't explain anything that that that Elizabeth Warren does. And I I like I most of these people that become characters like Elizabeth Warren, you don't really know them. You think you understand who they are or how they think or why you like or dislike them. You know nothing about these people, you know? And it's very interesting. A lot of the people who um uh end up developing these, I'm just looking at Massachusetts, like these people who have developed profiles who have opt, you know, optically become successful in politics, are not from Massachusetts. They're not from here, you know. So there's it's almost like there's nothing in the way uh of them building a character that nobody would be able to validate or invalidate.
Jack Moran:Wow. Right? It's very interesting.
Ian Cain:I mean, it's just a it's just that's just a a theorem, but it I it must hold some truth because there's no way you can you can claim to understand uh the true nature, thoughts, motivations of a person like that. Um or even an Ed Markey, who's who's you know gonna be 80 years old and running for uh Senate again this year.
Jack Moran:How are they typically going? Like, what is the standard for building that political platform? Is it just like most people don't really have their opinions of their own, right? Isn't it just like surveying, understanding what the audience wants, and then regurgitating that to align with like your donors or whatever, whatever your own interests are, um, and like creating a message that encapsulates all of those things?
Ian Cain:Yeah, I think you said it. Um repeat the first part of the question again.
Jack Moran:Like, I just want to understand better the process of building that political platform. Like, what goes into the messaging that you hear? Like it's people are taking it at face value, like this is the opinion of this person. And so that's why I am voting for this person. But I think it's interesting to understand like what actually goes into it and what you are hearing, like what is the substance of that message?
Ian Cain:Yeah. Um, well, I don't know. If you look at Elizabeth Warren, she was kind of thrust upon Massachusetts. Like she had, you know, she'd been the Harvard professor, um, but she was made the she created that consumer financial protection um Bureau under uh President Obama. And uh that gave her some clout. You know, she started challenging um I think the Treasury and the Fed and things like that. And um you know, she built a national profile and that's what you need to do, right, in order to uh gain the interest and awareness of uh large national donors who fund these operations. Um because it's the same lists going around all over the place. And so if people don't know you, if you don't have name ID, then they're most likely not going to support you. But um What do you mean lists?
Jack Moran:It's like pe people know who the donors are and Yeah, of course.
Ian Cain:I mean all that information is public, right? Um Federal Election Commission, like you can go look up uh who's making contributions to who and to what political action committees and where the those funds are going, you know. Um but yeah, I think there's a there's a combination of profile building, and then there is um, yeah, there's there's there's public opinion, right? There's understanding uh the trade wins and uh what people think of this and that and the other thing, and then taking positions on them. I I I wish that there was more integrity in politics, right? Um but I think there's two sides to that. I don't actually think that that's the the politician's fault. Like the politician doesn't need to lack integrity, but in order to be successful in the role, they need to placate to the people who you know are gonna vote for that. And so, you know, because I think oftentimes when people um have this desire for things like transparency and for openness and for truth, they don't actually want it. They either don't want it or they can't handle it. Um because they've been programmed to believe something else, and so anything that's anathec antithetical to that kind of core programming, it they're most often not going to believe or refuse to believe. Um so you know, I I think it's uh it's a case-by-case basis, but you watch it. I mean, this is a it's an ongoing saga and sort of soap opera, you know, and it's kind of gross. Um I I'm just thinking of like some of these people, like you think about uh um what's her name? AOC. Okay, like is she out there passing meaningful legislation? I have no idea. Like, is she changing people's lives? I have no idea, but is she popular because of her sort of celebrity status? Absolutely, you know, same with that woman in Texas, uh, Jasmine Crocker, right? She's you know, a little firecracker. I I can't even tell you like one thing that she stands for, but I know that she's out there, I know that she gets press. I know that she's popular on social media. Um, you know, I mean it's all these profiles like that. That woman who just um retired, um, she had another acronym name, uh, the Republican woman, uh, Marjorie Taylor Green.
Jack Moran:Okay, right.
Ian Cain:Yeah. So um, you know, she stepped down. I, you know, she stepped down and um or decided not to run again. And uh, you know, you don't you don't know why, but um yeah, I I don't I don't know. That's just another persona. Um one one thing that I read recently was like, you know, um a person like her and a person like um that woman who ran for vice president with John McCain. Um I can see Russia from your house. Do you remember her? Come on.
unknown:Sarah Palin.
Ian Cain:Thank you. Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin, like those are actually who those people are, you know, and so like and no, but for better or for worse, like they are who they are, and like they're not trying to be anyone else. And I again, I don't know this, I don't know these people. Um, but most of these other people are playing characters.
Jack Moran:Yeah, so would you say that the they're obviously having to play this game between two audiences, which is the voters are important and the donors are important, and probably the two are contradicting each other. What holds more leverage and where do they have to put more loyalty? Probably the donors, right? Or well, it's a crazy balance, I'm sure.
Ian Cain:I don't know. I think um it depends on who you are, right? Depends on um because I uh you can I don't know. I think there's all sorts of intric intricacies, and I think there are things that you're no cookie cutter, because the money's the means, right? And um it's like chicken before the egg kind of deal. But it is, but it is like uh it is a compact of some sort, right? Like I'm making a contribution to you, and there probably are greater expectations the more money that you're making, you know, uh in contributions, especially when it's around different vested corporate interests, right? Uh or commercial interests or whatever. Who who knows? But um, yeah, I think um, you know, for example, uh a lot of the crypto money in the last cycle in 24 um went to a guy named Bernie Moreno in Ohio. I think he got about 40 million dollars from crypto. Okay. And he beat an incumbent named Sherrod Brown in the U for the US Senate seat in Ohio. Um and he's not, you know, uh Bernie Moreno wasn't on the ground in Ohio saying, like, um for crypto, this is crypto crypto. You know, it was probably things like um the the Haitians are eating the dogs and the cats. Right?
Jack Moran:Yeah.
Ian Cain:So the money was the means to get the message. Yeah. Because nobody nobody really voters don't care about crypto, at least from my perspective. Like I there's you know, there's discussions to be had. But I don't think they have a like the voter constituency is organized enough to actually propel candidates. It's a means, you know, and I think um uh candidates are always looking for new markets for political contributions, and crypto happened to be the next big one, and so it propelled, you know, a lot of money into the last thing in the pr in the presidential election as well. Um, so I think it really depends.
Jack Moran:So, kind of as a last question before seguing out of the politics stuff, um, if you are a voter, how can you actually audit a person and say, is this person doing what's best for me? Instead of listening to their messaging, which clearly is like just marketing. How can what what would be a way that you could do that audit on a person and say, because you said, is this person really passionate passing meaningful legislature? Is that the gauge or the metric of like someone who's doing um doing well?
Ian Cain:Well, I mean, that's your job, right? You are a legislator. Is it to just talk? Is that your job?
Jack Moran:See, like it's funny because like I feel like I know a good bit about politics and or like I pay attention to it. And I until you're saying this, like really I couldn't probably have brought it if you asked what is a politician's job, yeah. I I wouldn't have known.
Ian Cain:Well, for okay, for a member of Congress, like you're elected on behalf of people uh to to take votes in Congress, right? Um, and to help with constituent services to be a liaison between um the federal government and and citizenry, right, right?
Jack Moran:So what you know you are you lit like actually litigating or no, you're not litigating.
Ian Cain:You so you um there are bills you're just voting.
Jack Moran:Yeah, you're just voting. Okay, gotcha.
Ian Cain:Yeah, gotcha. So you look at the votes, right? What are they voting on? Who are they collecting money from? Do those vote does that money affect who that what they're voting on? Does this benefit me? What are you doing for people? You know, because I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I don't that question up and down, like all over the place. Like and and it's uh subjective, like what people want. That's where it gets murky, right? Um, but the distraction stuff I think plays uh in a lot of people's favor. Uh the distraction and the deflection, I think, plays in a lot of people's favor because it it will uh take the light away from what they're doing or not doing.
Jack Moran:Right. And so what was your dissent out of politics and then you know, into transitioning what what you're doing now?
Ian Cain:Yeah, so you know, did the Senate campaign after that? Um, I had to make a decision on running for city council again or not. And you know, I I came to a point, I I said I'm just I can't mail anything in, and my heart's not totally in this, so I'm I I'm not gonna run again. Um I I don't like to half ass anything, and I think ten years is a good period of time. Um, you do have a shelf life. I think people um as I said, you know, it just like it doesn't matter what you do, they might they just might not care for you anymore. Um I was feeling a bit of that too, you know, and I I think I was just I'm like, I'm done. You know, I did it. And uh I gotta move on. Because this uh the political dream and the kid's time to grow up.
Jack Moran:Yeah. This is a little bit off topic. What do you think of this whole like Nick Shirley thing going on in Minnesota?
Ian Cain:Um who's Nick Shirley?
Jack Moran:With the uh the Somalian fraud. Oh. He's the one who exposed it.
Ian Cain:Oh, he's the um journalist. Yeah. Um what do I think of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Ian Cain:I think it's um it's doing what it needs to do, which is causing friction between people. And you know what I mean? Like whether I have an opinion on it or not is irrelevant. Um like it what it what it's doing is evoking an emotion in people.
Jack Moran:That's what it's intended to do?
Ian Cain:That's yeah. I mean, one, I I don't doubt that this Nick Shirley was trying to expose like get a good story out there and expose some corruption, but again, so if this corruption did take place and this group of people, which like um people have opinions about, depending on who you are, right? Like there's these these words are loaded. So Somalians are loaded because they're because it's not they're not called Americans. Like, why aren't they called Americans? Are they Americans or like are they like have they immigrated here? Are they, you know, what's the like why are we calling them Somalians? It's super valid, right? Yeah, because we're calling them Somalians, and so people are like, Oh, it's the Somalians who took our American money. So you're like, okay, and then there are people who are like, no, well, we need to protect everyone, you know, and it's just like you have people that have opinions, they're not actually in the fight, they're watching television. That's the biggest problem, is that you have set up um a uh you know, a little box of something that's going on, you've thrown that box into the wild, and you got people fighting over it. Wow, that's it. Yeah, but that's every issue. And so, like, there's a very I was talking to somebody about this the other day. You're like, all right, so when what's the point at which I need to care that something is truly wrong in this country, and then I need to like take action and do something about it? What's that point? What is the point of no return? I have no idea. But you know, it's it's sort of like I can't get wrapped up in all these issues that are just thrown at you that you have nothing to do with that make you look at Tim Waltz in a different way. I don't care about Tim Walt. I don't care about Tim Waltz, you know, but you know, that's that's what I think about that.
Jack Moran:Yeah, and it's I was just having this conversation with Sam uh yesterday, where I have some people in my circle that have done some work in Latin America and you know they've dealt with dictators, and it's funny because the some of the dictators have essentially been like, most of these people need a dictator. And and they're like, and they're like, and the people that critically think and and don't get wrapped up in all of this, like this dictatorship won't affect them.
Ian Cain:Yeah.
Jack Moran:And the people that need the dictator, whether they were in a free market or in you know a democratic society or whatever, they're gonna always be the ones that are complaining. So it doesn't really matter. Like they need someone to tell them like which way to go. Right. And it's just like, I don't know, it just puts it into an interesting perspective. Like it doesn't really matter. And the smartest thing you can do is just like focus on like your own life and contributing to the world in a positive way and watching politics, and like, you know, it's probably not the best use of your time.
Ian Cain:Remember that guy, um Chemoth, Chamath, whatever his name, the Facebook guy. He's on the all in, he does the all-in podcast. No, he came out on the scene like six or seven years ago and all of a sudden became a thing, and now he's hanging out at the White House. Anyway, um, he once was on a podcast and was talking about issues back and forth with someone, and he made a statement that was like, that's below my line. You know what I mean? Like, I don't care about that, it's not worthy of my thought. And he got a he got you know flack for it or whatever. That's okay. You're like, I can't, like, how much am I supposed to what am I supposed to care about? Like how it's kind of subjective to yes, yeah.
Jack Moran:Yeah. So what is now, what have you transitioned into and what do you care about?
Ian Cain:Yeah. Um myself. Advancement. Um so six plus years ago, um while in the city council, you know, we in Quincy have been ushering in a lot of um real estate development, mostly apartment complexes. And um, it's been great growth activity. We've put in thousands of new units. Um, what has been missing from that equation is new businesses, startups, innovation, entrepreneurship. Um, you know, that is very much enjoyed in places like Cambridge, and we've sort of built this new seaport. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on down there. But I wanted to see more of that activity take place south of Boston, specifically in Quincy. And so uh got together with a friend, we put together for a model for Cubic Labs, and Cubic Labs is um, you know, we're an innovation hub. We have created a space which now has three pillars uh to supporting entrepreneurs. Uh and most of those entrepreneurs are building businesses around blockchain and digital assets, like businesses. Um, and but we originally had a focus of financial and government tech, and actually a lot of the applications for blockchain digital assets go into those spaces, so it's kind of all come together. Um, but we support founders through an RD program. Uh so we have we've given out a number of non-dilutive grants to founders to work on pilots and minimum viable products in order to get their projects and companies off the ground, and then we help them raise capital on the back end. We've got an accelerator program. Um, so it's a 12-week accelerator program. We've got about 95 plus mentors and advisors that come in and give special talks around different aspects of business building and components around. And then we build ecosystems. So we host an event called Boston Blockchain Week. We've hosted that since 2022, and we host it uh right here from Quincy Center. Um, and uh it's been a great growing concern, but it's been a fun organization uh to build.
Jack Moran:When if an entrepreneur wants to get assistance from the government or integrate with the government or utilize the government like public resources, um what does that look like?
Ian Cain:Uh I think there's a couple things in there. Um if they want to work with the government and have a government as uh a customer, then they're going to directly sell to them, right? That's not, I mean, they are using public resources to as a you know sort of vendor but relationship. Um if they're looking for public resources, I mean there's a number of ways. Like we as a we're a nonprofit, we're a 501c3. We were um successful in raising public funds through a grant program that's run by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts through a quasi-public entity called Massachusetts Technology Collaborative, which allowed us to build this whole thing um to the to the level that it's at today. Um, and that was I call that a um it's an exercise in um it's business and political relationships, like sort of in one, you know. Um and but also you have to have a good product. So we had a good story, we had a good product that we were in, and this was around the RD program specifically. Um, but I think it was also sort of a confluence of um of of business and uh political relationships that sort of the that validates the work, right? Because it validates the the characters of the people that are putting it together. And I think um it's just like anything else. Um relationships are very important uh to I don't know, access. And and that's one thing that's an important thing in politics too, right? Is um is maintaining relationships is very important. I mean, not not that, but at that point, especially from our side, it's like you still have to have the chops to execute on what uh what you're proposing. And we did we've done that uh over the past three years. We we blew our project out of the water, you know.
Jack Moran:Um What were the results of that or the metrics of that?
Ian Cain:So we were we built a five million dollar public-private partnership. So we got two million dollars from the state, and then we had three million dollars in capital and in-kind contributions to create this RD and commercialization program around around blockchain. Um, that two million dollar public investment we turned into about $33 million of private capital invested directly in the 25 companies that we supported.
Jack Moran:So a lot of people have kind of a counterintuitive, or they don't have a proper view on how to start a company. They would think of an idea without going out and seeing what the market wants, and then they might go to the market and find out that that market doesn't really want that idea. What have you seen, or where do you think the opportunities lie right now? You know, as you're channeling this money, you're you're obviously seeing what people are paying attention to and want to invest in. What would you say for like someone who's a new entrepreneur or someone who's exited a business and moving into their next opportunity, where do you see the opportunities lie?
Ian Cain:Wow, I mean, that's a big question. Um, one thing that popped in my mind that when you were lining up the question is um I think sometimes people build companies around the capital that's available to be invested. Because sometimes they're just there's there's people that you're flush with investable capital through venture and and private equity, and so people are kind of just bootstrapping. Yeah, coming up here. I got new ideas. Um you know, I think that where we play, and we're now talking a lot more about digital infrastructure, so that's blockchain, AI, cyber, security, and um and connectivity. And connectivity is a play on the work that we've been doing in Quincy advancing a municipal fiber optic network. So, you know, we see some opportunities to build some um kind of cool concepts integrating the the four of these uh verticals. Um but yeah, I think that right. Right now, what we're seeing is the transformation of the global financial system. And the global financial system is uh deeply intricate. Um, and it is it it is largely run um by people that think in very traditional terms that um I think to change the actual underlying infrastructure of the space is gonna take longer than people um anticipate, even from the sort of internal space side. But we see great opportunity there. Um it's a it's a very long-term sort of vision, but it's looking at those spaces that uh are ripe for innovation because nobody's running there because it's not easy uh that we like.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Ian Cain:So, you know, we are are spending a lot of time uh looking at the municipal bond market, which is a huge marketplace that is ripe for innovation. Um one of our member companies uh helped advance the first municipal bond offering on blockchain in the country in 2024. Uh, and so you know, that organization has continued to identify cities and towns, municipalities, and other entities that want to uh uh advance that that product or use case.
Jack Moran:Um unpack the municipal bond thing, because I don't think most people have any idea, anything about that.
Ian Cain:Absolutely. So um cities and towns are primarily funded through uh their own capital budgets. Those capital budgets are funded by your taxes, primarily property taxes. There's also um, you know, maybe tourism taxes or sales taxes that go into city revenues, um, but that's how a city or town is primarily budgeted. If a city wants to build a firehouse or a school or a bridge, you know, some sort of infrastructure, uh, they don't have that money typically on their books. And so they need to go to the markets to raise that money. So what you do is you uh put out an offering uh through the municipal bond market. So this is a you know market that was created, I think, uh over a hundred years ago, um probably the turn of the 19th century. Around actually, I think it was around the time of the um around the time of the IRS. I could be wrong about that. Anyway, um and uh you basically uh say how much you're offering, there's uh you know an interest rate, there's coupon payments, uh, which means that there's a regular payment uh at a particular rate that you are paid on an annual basis as yield or a return, and then you pay back uh that principal and interest at the end of the life or the term of that bond. So um that is how cities and towns rely on um, I guess, growth.
Jack Moran:Is it kind of like factoring a little bit?
Ian Cain:Like you're like it's not necessarily factoring, it's just like taking a loan. Yeah.
Jack Moran:It's and then your receivable is the taxes.
Ian Cain:Yeah. Gotcha. Well, that's how you pay the debt service. Yeah. That's yeah. That's how you pay the interest in the principal in the in the coupon.
Jack Moran:So what is it like in a city like Boston that's an extremely old city?
Ian Cain:Yeah.
Jack Moran:How do you implement like new infrastructure, uh, whether it's digital infrastructure or actual infrastructure, in such an old city and get them to adopt these like new systems?
Ian Cain:It must be kind of difficult, like moving like a So the um, I mean, even us, we're an old city, but the regular infrastructure that you used to, like water mains and sewers and different types of pipes, like that, we just we've done a ton of work here. And I think that work is ongoing in in places like Boston too. And those things need to be replaced. Like you've got hundred-year-old pipe systems that certainly need to be upgraded, right? That are carrying your your water to your sink. Um, the digital side, um, that's also, I mean, the entire sp that's where we see because there's we see an opportunity to improve, I guess, innovation on cities and towns. And how are cities and towns innovating for the innovating for their own accord as governments that serve people? But how are they enabling residents and businesses to uh be more successful in this digital economy? So, you know, the fiber project here, that's totally innovative. The bond project here, totally innovative. Because the idea with the bond is that uh so you don't know how to buy into a municipal bond, which you could, but you have to go through a broker and there there are minimums. We want to make a retail market so that you could participate at a low dollar amount in a bond offering and align your civic and financial sort of interest at the local level, right? So you're like, oh, I like that school. Is it kind of like crowdfunding? It would be in that case. And it is about liquidity because you're not going to get $100 million uh from you know your own city or town to build the school. So you'll have an allocation or small, you know, carve out, uh, but you'll you'll need to raise the rest from uh the public markets. So um, but having that carve out, allowing you to buy you know $100 worth of a bond at the local level, and you know, you help build a school. But then allowing those proceeds from the bond that you purchased to continue to pay fees at the local level. You could allow, you know, you could use those proceeds to pay for your taxes or different fees at the local level. And you keep that money in the system, and that's very important for you know circulation in a in a local economy. Um, so that's the that's the eventual goal. It it it certainly takes um, you know, these are long-term projects. It takes a while to to one, you have to familiarize people with the underlying tech. And like you have to do that in a way that's not um discouraging, right? Because I think once you once a lot of people hear the word blockchain, they're like, uh I don't know what that is, you know, and they then you have to learn and you're like, no, no, no, it's just this, it's a it's a this is data and so how do you simplify it? Well, we I I always call it data management. I it's just a different method for data management, at least in these cases. Like even with the the bond that you did in Quincy, um, it was done on a private blockchain, which means that so in a typical public blockchain, you know, you can access the ledger and see activity. You know, you can see transactions, where they're happening, how much, but it's pseudo-anonymous, so you don't know who, you know, you don't know. Um, but um, so you wouldn't know anything about that transaction, like the transaction that took place here, anything that could take place in the secondary market, um, because it's behind somebody's own firewall. Um, again, what we want to do is make that information public. So the the blockchain, what it would enable, and I mean in governments, if they really believed in transparency, would would effectively adopt these, uh, you know, this technology, is that you can trace funds. You know, I mean you can you can clearly identify and trace where funds are going and where they've come from and where they're going and how they're being allocated and how your tax money is being spent, you know, but that would be too clever.
Jack Moran:I've seen some like interesting concepts where they talk about literally using like decentralized or like using blockchain for like the backbone of the government itself, because you could receive votes through it. That vote, you know, could be um some ledger transaction that um creates some outcome that's uncorruptible.
Ian Cain:Yeah, it could be. Have you thought about any of those? Well, there's a company that exists in Boston called Votes that's been trying to uh push this concept out. I think they've done some um some work in Utah and in Mexico and I think in Canada as well. Um so that is a concept. The the one thing that um it comes down to, which nobody has really cracked yet, is this digital identity. So having a unique identifier that's you know sort of affix to all of this different activity that takes place, you know, so a central, but it would be effectively a centralized manage, which goes antithetical to the philosophy of a decentralized.
Jack Moran:Give me that again, unpack that again.
Ian Cain:The whole, you know, as I was saying before about um blockchain and and digital assets, the whole effective use case from the get-go was to decentralize the ability to transact. So not needing an intermediary. Yeah, not needing an intermediary, and not having that intermediary uh like know your business. Like, you know, taking the bank and they don't they manage a central ledger of all the activity of their cloud, their customers and clients, right? So um in the case of a digital identity B-V, a government that would be managing your votes, um, that identity would need to figure out how to be decentralized, anonymized, right? You know what I mean, or pseudo-anonymized um so that your vote is still protected and private. That's one thing, but tying that all to different services. Oh, okay. I get what you're saying. Yeah.
Jack Moran:Interesting. So when you are picking these companies, first of all, are when is the next incubator that you guys are doing? And then how are you filtering and picking these companies and what are you guys looking for right now?
Ian Cain:Yeah, we just um so of our dedicated accelerator program, we just launched our second cohort yesterday. Uh, this is an all uh virtual cohort. We've got people from all around the world. We had about a couple hundred applicants and we chose 13 companies. Um the process we we mostly list our application on a startup uh website called F6S. And so that's been a great um guide for us to funnel uh people through the pipeline. We've got a multi-stage interview process. Uh there's a you know, sort of initial hello uh introduction, get to know you. We've got a a commercial uh assessment and a technical assessment as well that follow. And then um, you know, we we give the green light uh to come into the program. We look for uh early stage companies that um have not raised beyond a seed round. You know, we we want to be able to get to them early, um, probably by A stage. We're not really sure why you're going into an accelerator program.
Jack Moran:Um can you break down that like those funding stages for the common man?
Ian Cain:Yeah, and I think the ranges have changed too because of um the amount of capital that is being deployed. So you're seeing, you know, the scale used to be for it's like a friends and family uh round where you might raise fifty hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which would also be pre-seed, right? Um, just an earlier stage before you go to institutional money. That would be the later, which institution might come in at seed stage, or they might not come in until a series A. Um, but you know, I was just looking at a a document for a seed round that's looking for $3.5 million. Um, so that you know, I you've probably seen upwards of five. Then you're starting to get into a range, you know.
Jack Moran:So with each of those stages, what collaterals does the entrepreneur need to have to successfully raise that money? Have you found?
Ian Cain:Collateral?
Jack Moran:Yeah, so not c not like actual collateral, but like, you know, they have to have a proof of concept or they have to have Oh yeah.
Ian Cain:I mean for each of those stages, what are you? Um I mean, by by that, I mean, again, you're you're looking at you're you're trying to compare very different things. So um, yeah, product, market fit, um, a true technical capability, like a client base of some sort, revenue always looks good. Um, you know, those are those are real demonstratable things. Like, you know, the the most successful company is not gonna raise money. They've they've got a product, they sell it. Um, you know, a lot of folks who are looking to raise money are looking to build more technical aspects, which are good, right? Maybe having some uh path to intellectual property or something that creates value, um, you know, um revenue and customers.
Jack Moran:That's a good point that a lot of people miss the mark on, is when you said that a really good company won't have to raise money. And I see so many entrepreneurs that all their entire focus is on raising money, and they put very little focus into their product or learning the metrics or the proof of concept and getting that per unit due diligence. And I'm sure you experience that a lot too for people who are trying to do that.
Ian Cain:And I think that's become the game. I think you know, people see raising money as the activity as opposed to building the business.
Jack Moran:And not that not that they don't see that building the business is important activity, but they do put uh paramount uh Do you think it's because it's easy to raise money or there's a lot of free you know capital available out there that people it during different periods maybe.
Ian Cain:I mean, I don't think it's easy to raise money. I mean, I think it's it's a difficult thing, and and sometimes the terms can be very onerous.
Jack Moran:What are the cli what's the climate right now, do you think?
Ian Cain:Uh I think it's getting a little tight out there.
Jack Moran:A lot of funds are divested or not invested in companies, right? They have a lot of just like I just think I think things are I think things are murky.
Ian Cain:I don't like I don't you don't truly know what the status of the economy is, right? We play in tech, but like the economy as a whole, um we don't make things anymore, right? Like we're not we're not growing in manufacturing or production that I'm aware of. You know what I mean? Um we are uh growing as a service economy. Um and you see a lot of the sensation and attention being drawn toward these larger uh tech technology focused fundraises in the multi-billion dollar level, you know, but they're for consumer applications like uh uh Chat GPT anthropic, like you know, these these different AI plays and um data centers have been raising a ton of money. Again, this is infrastructure, but the data centers are becoming um you know difficult to I think actually get through development uh because the cost of electricity and the dependence on water is so high. Um so I I don't know. Again, I think I think it all fits into a greater scheme of um a reconstitution of the global financial and I I say social systems as well, because I think social systems are being recalibrated. Um and a lot of these this infrastructure uh fundraising and activity that you know connects to the technological um the sort of lower levels in the in the um startup world connect, you know, it all connects to that.
Jack Moran:It's pretty interesting how like these data centers are and the technology is being created with like an awareness that there's going to be a less reliance on labor or a less ability to rely on that labor. And so they're relying on automation, but to power that automation, you need like the plumbing and electricians, and it's like a weird shift, like how the it's a very it's a very weird shift, yeah. What were you saying when you said that the um, and I'm I'll wrap it up here, but um you think that there's a um I don't know what the statement you used was, but there's a social, um there's a change in the social media.
Ian Cain:Yeah, financial and so yeah. I mean, um the financial systems, again, it's it's sort of technologically enabled. It is um you're you're hearing a lot about um blockchain and digital assets, and I think that's dramatically going to change the way that people transact over time. Um because I think that regular people still don't understand. So it the like if you're not giving someone a debit card or something comparable to that, then they're you know, the the bar to education in onboarding people into a new system uh needs to be very low. Um it it needs to take little to no education, and they just need to be able to plug and play and use it. And so when that comes, then it'll be much more uh prolific. Um the social system you've got you've got um movements across the world, migrations that are taking place that I don't think we really understand. Like I don't I don't think that um it is uh by chance that um these migrant movements that are taking place across the United States and in Europe uh are on you know by accident, right? Um, you know, I think that the the conversations that don't take place are about the different aspects of um true labor needs to support a society. And you're hearing it in different ways. You heard the President Trump um recently say something about the US not having adequate talent that we need to continue to bring in. Um let's just for example, Indian uh labor on the H1B to work at tech companies because we don't have the talent here, and I think that that happens at all levels, um, you know, for for whatever reason. But um and then that fits into social programs. Um so, you know, uh when the labor rates uh are not keeping up with cost of living, um, you know, you need to find ways to support uh a society, and so that'll be more um government outlays of social programs that will support and continue to support. We've seen it from the state level and the federal level, new people coming here uh for for different types of labor, but people who've already been here who are crowded out from the labor because uh they've been priced out.
Jack Moran:Are you optimistic or pessimistic for the United States and the current trajectory that it's on?
Ian Cain:Why, I mean, like I don't know, I don't understand quite where where where where does it go? Like optimistic or and or pessimistic that what the United States will fail?
Jack Moran:Um Yeah, I mean I guess like What does failure look like then for me, failure maybe not is maybe it's not failure, because I don't think it will collapse like that, but I think that the way of life that we know it um shifts and some of our luxuries that we've become complacent um about will be no longer available.
Ian Cain:Um let me tell you this. So um right now there's a bill that's being proposed before the Massachusetts state legislature to limit the amount of miles that people can drive. Okay. So and it it looks like it has pretty substantial support. Now, what do you think of something like that?
Jack Moran:Um I don't like it. Why not? Because it's just like a limitation.
Ian Cain:It's a limitation.
Jack Moran:Yeah, it's a taking away a freedom.
Ian Cain:Okay.
Jack Moran:So I'm sure there's pros, I could think of many pros as well, but like what um decreased emissions, um less traffic um would be two that I can think of off the top of my head. But I think that I've gone down these rabbit holes, and I think that more control usually leads to a worse path than less control. And they both have their pros and cons, but I th I would rather let the market like decide things um in people's natural relationships than having something imposed on that. Yeah. Which I guess like at it at the end of the day, it's gonna organize itself anyway, and someone's gonna be imposing someone something on someone else. So it's like very difficult to say like what is the true solution, but
Ian Cain:Yeah. No, I I don't know how that's a good idea or why that's a priority. Right. But I um I think if more things are like there are certainly there's probably a group of people out there that are like, no, this is this is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Ian Cain:And I'm I think I'm good, and this is good because it will reduce the effects of climate change, right? Great. If we continue to propose things like this, then I'm not um optimistic because I I just think that like there's two things going on here. Um it's it's like so it's social engineering, and you're trying to limit people's uh ability to move. Why? That's not that's not your business, you know what I mean? So um I I just think that, and but there's a there's a counter to that. I mean, there's also crazy things that can come from from any angle. Um, but we've lost sight in the United States, especially in Massachusetts, of what matters, what's good for people. I carry this, um, and this I learned from politics very early in city council. Um everyone is brainwashed. They're being manipulated on a mass scale on a daily basis, and they don't know it. They think their ideas are their own and that they've thought of them, and that they're clever, and that they somehow align with them, but they're being led to God knows where. Um, and if we don't enable people, our own people, to think on their own, um, to have agency, then I'm I'm pessimistic. Because and it and it goes back to like the beginning of the conversation, having an awareness, right? Like knowing who you are, and these are things that we fundamentally lack, but we've lost the plot. There are people talking about things that just do not matter, and people have been made to believe that they matter, and they get in the way of true progress.
Jack Moran:So if you, and this will be my final question, if you could unpack it down to like in the simplest form, what would you recommend from your own perspective as the recipe or the action that an individual can take to have an impact, a positive impact?
Ian Cain:Improve yourself. Stop getting swept up in things that don't that don't matter to you, that won't affect you, you know. Uh the more that you can improve yourself, then the better example that you can become or be for someone else.
Jack Moran:And it'll resonate on you.
Ian Cain:Yeah, yeah, that's the only way. And you can't convince, you can't convince anyone to do that. Um, people are so used to playing and projecting out their emotions and all this, and and it's just that people are just spewing all over everyone out there, you know? Um, but you're like, go within. Like, and I don't I don't mean to sound all spiritually and whatnot, but like really take a take a hard look in the mirror.
Jack Moran:Um do a seven-day silent retreat.
Ian Cain:Yeah, do a 10-day Vibasana retreat. Um, but yeah, no, I it's like it's take a look in the mirror. Um, but I think some people just don't like what they see and and to continue like to you know to to really um it's hard work, right? But um you you can't you can't cast dispersions and tell people who they need to be if you haven't done that stuff yourself.
Jack Moran:Right, absolutely. That's really good advice. So if people, and this has been an extremely interesting conversation, um, if people wanted to reach out to you or wanted to see like you know your business or interested in anything you talked about today, where can they find you? Sure.
Ian Cain:Um you can find us at cubiclabs.com. That's www.qubiclabs.com. Uh more information about that. We've got Boston Blockchain Week.com as well. This year we're hosting the event September 8th to 10. Uh, check out the website, stay tuned for updates. We'd love to have you here in Quincy for what has become New England's biggest blockchain and digital assets conference. This year's theme is the digital infrastructure stack. We'll go into a lot more of what we started to outline today.
Jack Moran:Fantastic. Well, I appreciate you coming on.
Ian Cain:Thanks, Jack.
